Trying to identify this one

[Oneshot2008]

Hi,

I have been searching the gallery and other posts, but not knowing any search terms specific to this rifle has me baffled.

Here are some pics. He remembers shooting this rifle. But he can not remember which one it is. He thought it was chambered for .303 British, but it is not. Bolt will not close. He did find some .303 Savage, and 30-30 fired cases in his ammo box that was stored with this rifle.

It will be about a month before I can pick up the rifle and take it to a gunsmith.

Any idea what it is? Only marking I could read was a matching serial number on the Rifle and the bolt. 64820

Lots of damage to the stock with multiple repairs and existing cracks. He wants to shoot it again. I will try to create an album with lots more pics and closeups.

Information

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[Oneshot2008]

OK
I was able to create an album. ID NEEDED - Oneshot2008s Photo Gallery - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

[smellie]

Well, the photos are okay, but the ones that would REALLY help aren't there.

A close-up of the ACTION including the rear of the BOLT would really help: that looks like the emergency-issue smooth cocking-piece on her, which would indicate a rifle which has never been factory-rebuilt. That is noteworthy in itself.

The rifle is a Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield Mark III*, but that's all I can say for sure. It is late in WW-1 production or possibly WW-2 production: it uses the LARGE screw for the nose-cap.

The information that most of us would like to see is under the bolt-handle, most likely. Flip up the bolt-handle and take a peek. These rifles were made in 6 different factories, under 7 different designations. The factories are:
Enfield: made about 60% of total British production in WW-1, none in WW-2.
BSA (Birmingham Small Arms): made about 30% of British production in WW-1, continued in WW-2 as only remaining British maker of this rifle.
LSA (London Small Arms): made about 5% of total British production, all in WW-1.
SSA (Standard Small Arms) and NRF (National Rifle Factory) were the same plant, before and after it was nationalised late in 1917. Rifles date from 1915 onward and total 5% of British WW-1 production, mostly in 1918, none in WW-2.
Ishapore: made rifles mostly for India, but they did get around.
Lithgow: built these rifles from 1912 through to 1956, in Australia.

UNDER THE BOLT HANDLE:
Rifles are marked with the Royal Signet (Crown and letters ER (1903-1910) or GR (1910-1936) or ER again (1936) and then GR again (1936 to 1944)..... and the DATE of production. I don't know how the Aussie rifles made duing the reign of the current Queen are marked, never having seen one. Perhaps one of our knowledgeable Australian friends can tell us. The FACTORY mark is also there, as is the MODEL of the rifle, in this case Mark III although it has Mark III* characteristics and should be so marked.

The stock appears to be walnut, just greasy/oily, which means that it is possible that it isn't Aussie or Indian: they both used local woods.... as well as walnut, just to make things hard. It has a 5-digit serial number, though, so even the factory is hard to pin down: Enfield and BSA (90% of total production) used 4-digit numbers with letter groups. My NRF 1918 is marked the same, as are both my SSAs. On the other hand, I also have rifles here from BSA, Lithgow, Ishapore and LSA, all with 5-digit numbers, so the hard-and-fast rules aren't hard and they aren't fast. Wartime changes even RULES.

But it SHOULD be a .303. If a .303 round won't chamber, there is every chance that there is something (likely a broken case) obstructing the chamber. Take a close look to see if there's something in there.

And try for a couple of shots, nice and clear, of the area under the bolt-handle, of the action from the right side and the action from the REAR. Those will tell us a LOT.

It does have possibilities, though. You would not believe some of the utter JUNK that I have worked with, over the years, and gotten shooting again.

Looks like you have a new friend.... just a few decades older than you.

Have fun!
.

[muffett.2008]

Those photo's are what one would expect of someone trying not to have a firearm identified, almost deliberately avoiding any positive marking or body group that would effectively place this rifle.
I certainly hope this was an honest mistake, not one of those suspect threads that we occasionally see. Looking foreward to some clarifying photo's.

[Oneshot2008]

Those photo's are what one would expect of someone trying not to have a firearm identified, almost deliberately avoiding any positive marking or body group that would effectively place this rifle.
I certainly hope this was an honest mistake, not one of those suspect threads that we occasionally see. Looking foreward to some clarifying photo's.

I just took a lot of pics. I did not know what areas to target until I received replies. Working on doing the pics needed.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

If a .303 will not chamber, its quite likely there is a headless broken case stuck in the chamber. It sure as heck is NOT a 30-30 or a .303 savage

[bouletbill]

If a .303 will not chamber, its quite likely there is a headless broken case stuck in the chamber. It sure as heck is NOT a 30-30 or a .303 savage

Hey John, how come it can't be a 30-30 ? there's one down our gun club, looks just like my .303, I think a lot were converted 'Down Under'.

Though I must admit that I agree, a detached case neck would be the prime suspect.

[Oneshot2008]

You guys are great. I am already learning alot of what to look for. Would the short barrel mean this was a Calvary gun?
I hope these pics help. The stamping under the bolt pic is not to clear. I am having trouble with reflections.

The stamping is:
In the center is a Crown with the letter R under it. This is inverted in regards to the other stampings.

To the right is a larger font size 41 with the 4 being a deeper stamp than the 1. Not sure if the 1 is actually a stamp.

To the left looks like a series of 3 symbols that I can not make out. They are worn. This row is in a vertical row compared to the horizontal of the 41.

The new pics are here: more pics to help identify - Photo 1403

I was just able to increase the contrast of the stamping under the bolt. The symbols can be seen better in this one than in the album.

[IMG][/IMG]

[RF4guy]

I believe some of these rifles were converted from .303 British to .308. Could that be the caliber?

[gsimmons]

Please take some pictures of the right side of the butt socket under the bolt handle. Thank you.