GUNSHOW FINDS: No 7 Mk 1/1 , K98,P30 entrenching tool

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

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Not much in the way of guns at the local show but I did nab these.
The No 7 is a work of mechanical art. Any thoughts on the 21 painted on the rear?
What I suppose is a late (due to the lack of markings SN only) K98 bayonet.
Completed my set of British entrenching tools with the No4 bayo attachment type.

Information

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[Aragorn243]

What did the No 7 set you back? I still need one and they are almost as bad as the No 5's.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

What did the No 7 set you back? I still need one and they are almost as bad as the No 5's.

$75 USD without scabbard and frog. Feel pretty good about it. Sarco has the cruciform spikes in stock $125 I think.

[gew8805]

Nice acquisitions. This link from Karkee Web should clear up your confusion on your entrenching tool - P08 head and P37 MkII helve.

Pattern 1937 Web Equipment

---------- Post added at 09:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

What did the No 7 set you back? I still need one and they are almost as bad as the No 5's.

They have always been high priced items.

[LesterH]

The No7 bayonet is RSAF Poole (P)1948. This was one of the last made. The rarer version has a black hand grip. The going rate for one of these is over £100 now. I had a mint one of these donated to my collection by a local builder who was clearing out a flat!
Whilst rummaging at Chelmford Militaria Fair a few years ago. I found a British entrenching tool, dated 1943 and still wrapped in the original storage paper. £28.00!
These items are getting hard to find in nice condition so you have to grab them when you can. (Funds permitting of course).

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

These items are getting hard to find in nice condition so you have to grab them when you can. (Funds permitting of course).

I am reasonably aware of the current prices so if I can I aquire them at a fair price I do so. Any ideas about the 21 painted on the but? Opps ,just realized no picture of the 21 it is hand painted on the swiveling No 4 attachment portion in white paint.

[tankhunter]

I am reasonably aware of the current prices so if I can I aquire them at a fair price I do so. Any ideas about the 21 painted on the but? Opps ,just realized no picture of the 21 it is hand painted on the swiveling No 4 attachment portion in white paint.

It is common pratice in the British Forces. For the Armoury Storeman to paint 'Butt Numbers' on smallarms held in thier Armouries. Less common, but I suggest that the same practice was used on Bayonets by SOME Arms Storemen. The Reason is very simple really. When issuing out weapons rapidly, it would be VERY time consuming to write down the serial Numbers of every single weapon on the issue sheets.
He will have a a pre printed out/Hand Written pad of sheets with every single weapon held on his charge in the armoury. Along side all this info will be a 'Butt Number' allocated to each serially numbered weapon.
To that end it is VERY simple for him to check down the list to a butt number & get the guy who it is issued to to sign the sheet in the last box on the list with his signiture. This then ensured that there was 'Evidence' of the weapon taken off the charge of the Arms Storeman. & responsibility for safe keeping passed over the the issue-ee.

As a bonus, if there were any damage caused & not reported as it may have been through negligent or carless handling. The Armourer could check the issue sheet & track who was the last person to have had the weapon in thier Charge. a very easy way to point the finger at susspicion evidencialy at the Poor sap who had the misfortune to hand a weapon back in without reporting the defect/damage caused!
Consequently, he would be pulled, questioned & more than liikely charged with the 'Offence'. To recoup some of the cost to the taxpayer!

The EASY way to avoid this 'Difficulty'. Was to report the Armourer. Be HONEST about what had transpired. And most decent Armourers would 'sort' the problem & would be in the most agreeable position of having a case of Beer provided free of charge! I am absolutely SURE Peter, Skippy, & other Brother Armourers like myself. Have been in this 'Fortunate' situation, MANY times indeed!..........

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

To recoup some of the cost to the taxpayer!

You mean like recouping some of the cost to the taxpayer by cutting up and selling for scrap ,sound arms that could find their way into the hands of citizens? Some governmental procedures make more sence than others. Thanks for the detailed explination I knew there must be one.

[tankhunter]

You mean like recouping some of the cost to the taxpayer by cutting up and selling for scrap ,sound arms that could find their way into the hands of citizens? Some governmental procedures make more sence than others. Thanks for the detailed explination I knew there must be one.

Hi Hooked, I share your sorrow for what appears to us as collectors. To be a sensless waste of equipment, But you MUST bear in mind. Tha Government Departments do NOT function on Common sense!
Rules & regulations are what count in the Military. There ARE regs set out in E.M.E.R.s for Armourers & other Trades as to inspection standards & resulting actions from them.

As an relevant example on bayonets. On Bowie Bladed bayonets like the SLR L1A3/A4 Or the No.7, Or No.9. 'The Blade length must NOT be reduced by less then 7.5" Inches'. Is ONE of many inspection standards applied to bladed Bayonets

That is to say: That as a result os sharpening over the years, Damage to tips & repointing Etc. If the blade length was then reduced to LESS than 7.5" Inches. It was to be condemend, & reduced to scrap.
All of the condemend bayonets should have been stripped down for servicable componants & put in the spares boxes by the unit Armourer.
Then, the blades were Gas axed (Oxy-Acettelyne) torch cut in half. Or put in a bench vice & snapped in half. Then the two halves were slung in the small arms scrap box for sercure disposal.

I have wondered if a blade length of 7.25" would be any less damaging with causing an incapacitaing wound. Or would kill you any less dead-er then one of 7.5" inches?.....However! Rules is Rules, & you HAVE to have a starting point to work from, agreed?

I know that quite few were 'saved' by Armourers like myself, Peter & Skippy to name a just a few of us. That were cleaning up & fitted to a purpose made wall plaque, with regimental capbadge. & a brass nameplate for presentation to a senior member of the unit in the Mess. That would be part of thier leaving presentation Gift from Senior ranks. So at least 'SOME' were saved & went on to a 'life extention program', of sorts!..........

[Brit plumber]

It is common pratice in the British Forces. For the Armoury Storeman to paint 'Butt Numbers' on smallarms held in thier Armouries. Less common, but I suggest that the same practice was used on Bayonets by SOME Arms Storemen. The Reason is very simple really. When issuing out weapons rapidly, it would be VERY time consuming to write down the serial Numbers of every single weapon on the issue sheets.
He will have a a pre printed out/Hand Written pad of sheets with every single weapon held on his charge in the armoury. Along side all this info will be a 'Butt Number' allocated to each serially numbered weapon.
To that end it is VERY simple for him to check down the list to a butt number & get the guy who it is issued to to sign the sheet in the last box on the list with his signiture. This then ensured that there was 'Evidence' of the weapon taken off the charge of the Arms Storeman. & responsibility for safe keeping passed over the the issue-ee.

As a bonus, if there were any damage caused & not reported as it may have been through negligent or carless handling. The Armourer could check the issue sheet & track who was the last person to have had the weapon in thier Charge. a very easy way to point the finger at susspicion evidencialy at the Poor sap who had the misfortune to hand a weapon back in without reporting the defect/damage caused!
Consequently, he would be pulled, questioned & more than liikely charged with the 'Offence'. To recoup some of the cost to the taxpayer!

The EASY way to avoid this 'Difficulty'. Was to report the Armourer. Be HONEST about what had transpired. And most decent Armourers would 'sort' the problem & would be in the most agreeable position of having a case of Beer provided free of charge! I am absolutely SURE Peter, Skippy, & other Brother Armourers like myself. Have been in this 'Fortunate' situation, MANY times indeed!..........

A crate of beer can get you out of a whole heap of s**t, MT Ops, PTIs, Boss', not so much the wife though.