a small piece of No.4(T) research in the British archives

[Mk VII]

I came across this recently, while searching for something quite different.


On 25 Aug 1942 the War Office cabled the following to the British Army Staff in Washington DC:

Are Rifles No. 4 now being manufactured in USA and Canada being fitted with leaf back sights? If so possible requirement in UK for 7,000 in connection with manufacture of sniper's rifles.

The reply on 31 Aug 1942

First. Present USA and Cdn. rifles have Mark two (tip-up) backsight.

Second. Savage has approx. 6000 assembled Mark one leaf backsights.

Third. Might obtain these provided decision cabled immediately.

A minute dated 2nd Sept asks:

S.S.9 (through A.L.M.)

We urgently require 7,000 leaf backsights to complete fitment of No.4 Telescopic Rifles awaiting urgent issue to troops.
The cables at 1A and 1B [above] show 6,000 sight assembled to be available.
Will you therefore please arrange that these sights are delivered by the quickest available route to Weedon.
A draft cable is enclosed for despatch.

(sd.) R.H. Salmon
W.S.14

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Roger Payne]

This is very interesting MkVII & may be the confirmation of something that I have thought came to pass for a long time; that Savage rear sights were fitted to some No4 (T)'s, probably at H&H's, in order that the sniper's rifles could be completed & sent on for issue. I have owned or heard of several 1943 BSA conversions that bore what appeared to be 'genuine' (period) rear sights, properly modified to Mk1 M specification, & which were marked with the squared off 'S' indicating Savage manufacture. IIRC I still own at least one of these rifles. All of the ones I am aware of have the cut-off block 'S' missing, as would be expected under such circumstances. As I have come across several rifles I had wondered if a supply of Mk1 sights of Savage mfr might have been made available so as to permit the completion of sniper conversions during 1943.

Thank you very much for this snippet of information.

ATB.

[Peter Laidler]

This might have gone some way to resolving the S on the cut-off block. I was told that it was something to do with the requirement to have the sight changed - BUT I never really quite got to the bottom of it, although we still haven't. But it's a good start! As DRP says, there are plenty of Savage Mk1 backsights on No4T's

Mk1 backsights were always a bottleneck in production.

Incidentally DRP ands others, the No4T modified backsight wasn't ever designated as a Mk1M or 1/1 but just kept the old part number and designation Mk1.

[Brian Dick]

Long Branch No.4Mk.1* T rifles sport converted Savage Mk.1 rear sights too. They are complete with the "Maltese Cross" marking. Savage sent tons of spares for new rifle production to England. I always try to talk people "restoring" mid war Maltby rifles out of it when their rifles are full of Savage parts. We've discussed it here before.

[Roger Payne]

Yep, one of my 90L's has a modified Savage rear sight.

[Peter Laidler]

I found a couple of S Mk1 T backsights in a box of assorted backsights during my last visit to the main Base workshop. Mind you, I think that they'd been changed because the slides were as loose as bu66ery on the leafs (leaves?). Thinking out aloud, I suspect that H&H were running a battle for sights by robbing peter to pay paul so to speak so that they were always running at a loss. On the other hand, those that had the sights changed were subject to range testing/zeroing so there'd really be no point changing sights in a robbing peter to pay paul way I suppose.

Interesting - in a funny sort of way I suppose