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    Legacy Member superbee's Avatar
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    1933 Trials sniper

    Check out this trials sniper on gun auction.I think this one will go for big dollars.

    http://www.gunauction.com/buy/127170...-rifle-c-and-r
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    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

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    Legacy Member tlvaughn's Avatar
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    And if it wasn't going to, it will now!

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    Contributing Member Brian B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlvaughn View Post
    And if it wasn't going to, it will now!
    I concur. We used to have a "gentlemen's agreement" that we would not post links to live auctions unless it was a fake and we were warning others. As many of you probably do as well, I look hard for rifles to purchase and would appreciate that others don't post links to live auctions. This rifle is in my back yard and I have handled it and I certainly don't need any more competition in the bidding.

    Any thoughts from the rest of you on forum members posting links to live auctions? It just makes it more visible to the rest of the world and drives up prices. If other potential buyers aren't willing to put in the time to search for these items, we shouldn't help them out.

    Thanks,

    Brian B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    Any thoughts from the rest of you on forum members posting links to live auctions? It just makes it more visible to the rest of the world and drives up prices. If other potential buyers aren't willing to put in the time to search for these items, we shouldn't help them out.
    Yes, we have some thoughts and have posted the following position statement many times over the years ......

    We've often had members express concerns about posting links to auctions and sales on other sites, for the benefit of all members.

    Our position is that it's just fine to do.

    If anyone believes that in this technology driven day and age, a public auction or sales ad appearing on the Internet, is somehow going to remain a secret amongst a select few who find it and want to exclusively keep it to themselves ... well, what can I say ...

    This site is not a private clique. First and foremost, we are a research site founded with part of our mandate oriented to helping ALL members to be aware of public sales or auctions, including the ultimate prices those items sell for. We view it as just another part of a normal research and authentication process, particularly for new or less experienced collectors. Our approach to this policy has been the same for over 8 years and is not open for debate.

    Thank you for respecting our wishes ...

    Regards,
    Doug
    Last edited by Badger; 04-03-2014 at 01:55 PM.

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    Gotta love those "Maltby" 1933 Enfields.

    Might be fun to pick apart, but it'll probably end up being "unfun" expensive.

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    Well, it is nice to look at. Even though it is definitely going to be way out of my price range.....

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    Saved auction information and pics for posterity and for future research by members ...

    Guns For Sale - Rare Holland & Holland Enfield -- No4 Mk1 .303 British Bolt Action Sniper Rifle C&R

    Auction Closed ... SOLD with HIGH BID: $6,603.90 U.S.

    LSB#: 140130RM21

    Make: Enfield, Maltby Factory (see: http://www.enfieldcollector.com/serials.html)

    Model: No4 MkI

    Serial Number: A1038

    Year of Manufacture: 1939-1943

    Caliber: .303 British

    Action Type: Bolt Action with Detachable Magazine

    Markings: There is no visible import mark. The left side of the stock collar is marked “G crown R / ENFIELD / ENGLAND / No 4 Mk1 / A 1038 / F.T.R. (Firearm, Through Repair) / T R (the final inspection proof prior to being upgraded by Holland & Holland)”. The front left of the receiver is marked with a “crown / BNP” proof. The top rear of the receiver is marked with an “H”, “crowned” stampings as well as several over stamped marks. The rear barrel band is marked “N arrow 79”; the front band is marked “arrow N 79”. The top of the front sight is marked “F V / 045”. The underside of the bottom nose cap is marked with faint lettering that ends in “NS”. The rear of the bolt handle is marked with the serial number and a partial stamping. The underside of the bolt knob is marked with a “crown / BNP” proof. The bolt body has tool marks on it. The cocking piece is marked with two unknown stampings. The safety is marked with an “arrow”. The bottom of the grip is marked “S.L / arrow / inverted V / crown”, “K” and with faded stampings. The top of the grip is marked with what appears to be “1-5-6-8 / 17211”.The left edge of the stock is marked “0” next to the receiver. The underside of the forearm is marked “A 1038” and “crown / 33”. The screw for the center swivel is marked with an “arrow”. The magazine follower is marked “M/56”; the base is marked with the serial number.

    Barrel Length: Approximately 25 ¼”

    Sights / Optics: The front sight is a blade set between two protective ears. The rear sight is a flip up sight ladder marked from “2 - 13”. There is no rear sight when the ladder is down due to the scope. The left side of the receiver has two threaded holes for accepting the scope base that is attached to the scope. The scope is a fixed 3 power with a post reticle. The glass appears clear and it appears to function correctly. The tube and knobs show scratches and wear. The front of the tube is worn and discolored. The scope is attached to a one piece mount with two rings. The mounting screws are integral to the base. The scope is marked “TEL. SIGHTING / No 32 MK III / O.S. 2039 A / AK&S No 17211 / 1944 / arrow”. The top knob is marked “0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10”. The side knob is marked “16 12 8 4 0 4 8 12 16”. The two scope ring tops and matching base bottoms are marked “486” and “487”. The left side of the scope base is marked “AS5991” and with the rifle serial number, “A1038”. The scope, rings and base are in about Very Good condition. The scope comes in a separate green canvas case with a rigid case insert. The case is torn where it folds over and shows discoloration. It is marked on the underside with four lines of stenciling and a large instruction label. The front of the case is stenciled with the matching serial numbers for the scope and rifle. The scope also comes with a one piece leather scope lens cover. It is worn and shows discoloration. The case and lens cover are in about Very Good condition.

    Stock Configuration & Condition: The four piece, hardwood stock has a straight grip, raised check piece, nose caps, two barrel bands, three sling loops, and a brass buttplate with hinged door for storage. The raised cheek piece is secured by two screws. The stock has a 2” long compression mark on the left side of the butt. There are small compression marks on the right of the butt. There are light compression and handling marks on the wood. There are light scratches on the cheek piece. The LOP measures 13 1/8” from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. The stock rates in about Fine to Excellent overall condition.

    Type of Finish: As Military Applied

    Finish Originality: Refinished During Sniper Upgrade

    Bore Condition: The bore is bright; the rifling is deep and sharp. There is no erosion.

    Overall Condition: This rifle retains about 93% of its current metal finish. The nose caps are scratched and worn. Some of the finish is flaking off the scope base where the scope attaches. It is also flaking of on scratched areas of the receiver. Imperfections in the metal were finished over during the refinishing. The brass buttplate is oxidized and lightly scratched. The trigger guard and sling swivels are scratched. The screw heads show light use. The new markings are deep; some of the old markings are faded. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition, as refinished.

    Mechanics: The action functions correctly. We have not fired this rifle.

    Box, Paperwork& Accessories: The rifle comes with a 10-round magazine that shows wear and scratches. It is in about Very Good Condition. It also comes with a bayonet and scabbard. The bayonet has an 8” spike, a push button release, and is marked “N67” (made by Singer 1942-1944) on the release as well as with faint markings on the side of the base. It shows light wear and is in about Very Good to Fine condition. The hard plastic sheath is unmarked and shows wear and scratches; it is in about Very Good condition. It comes with a brown leather sling that is marked “SA in a box”, a Finnishicon Property mark. It is worn scratched and in about Very Good condition.

    Our Assessment: This rifle started out as an Enfield No.4 Mk1 made at the Maltby factory. It was selected for its inherent accuracy and then sent off to Holland & Holland to be upgraded to a sniper. This rare rifle comes with a scope, mount, scope case, bayonet and scabbard. This is a nice one to add to your collection. Please see photos as there are more markings on the accessories than listed above. For an article on the process of taking a No4 Mk1 and making it into a sniper, please see: From No4Mk I (T) to L42 AI | All About Enfields. Good Luck.

    CA Legal or CA Private Party Transferable: This rifle is curio and relic eligible and can be transferred/sold in California.
    Last edited by Badger; 04-14-2014 at 08:43 AM.

  13. #8
    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
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    Yes I agree a high price indeed, were the transit case to be with it then where would the price end, would this have been issued with one just a question people.
    Thanks in advance

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    Legacy Member chosenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CINDERS View Post
    Yes I agree a high price indeed, were the transit case to be with it then where would the price end, would this have been issued with one just a question people.
    Thanks in advance
    Cinders, The production 4T didn't have a transit case in 1942 when it was ready to go out to units waiting for them and I think the very first rifles to be delivered were done so in springfield factory boxes made to hold six rifles. The trials rifles manufactured some ten years earlier were housed in converted bren transit cases.

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    There are a few shortcomings with the rifle that can be seen. At some time in it's history, the scope and bracket were changed. The bolt (or at least the cocking piece) is not original, the front sight guard is not original, and who knows what else as a result of the FTR. I would think a non-FTR trials would be a lot more desirable, especially if it had it's original optic.

    We'll see after the next 11 days what the market thinks it's worth. Personally, I think there are much better examples out there. The canvas scope case is a neat touch, but even that is a later replacement.

    Since the rifle does appear to be as the army FTR'd, used, and disposed of it, hopefully the buyer will be satisfied with that rather than starting to try to un-do all the changes.

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