Very early No4 Sniper

[Chris7171]

Hello

Snapped this photo at the New Zealand national army museum (Waiouru) of a interesting No4 Mk1 "T" Looks like a very early rifle possibly a converted trials rifle, couldn’t get a closer look as it was in the display, but has the mag cut off and an early fore sight protector.

Information

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[jmoore]

Odd to see with both piling swivel and the trigger guard swivel. No rear sight at all?

[rayg]

I don't know and maybe it's just me, but the cut out on the stock for the cut off seems a bit off to me like the corners are too sharp. Most of the stock cuts I've seen, the corners were more finished/rounded. Maybe the stock was a replacement non cutoff one and the cut out was added. Just a thought, Ray

[ssj]

How interesting, Peter L has been out here so might know but @rayg NZers tend to have a no8 bailing wire mentality, ie roll your own stuff. I have certianly seen LBs at auction that had "T" Mods whether done ex-mil or target shooters is hard to know after so many years/owners.

PS many of the trials rifles were so converted to "T"s?

[Roger Payne]

Yep, looks like a Trials T. I would also agree with Ray's point about the recessing of the forend for the cut-off - it looks a bit sharp & 'angular'. Mind you I would imagine the modification would be considered permissible. I've seen Mk3* SMLE forends cut down low to accommodate the cut-off before now.

[Seaforth72]

It does indeed look like it is one of the early 1930s Trials No. 4 MK. I rifles converted by Royal Small Arms Factory to No. 4 MK. I (T). It would be one of the 1,403, most of which, but not all, were Trials rifles.

Indications of it being a Trials rifle are the brass butt disc, magazine cut-off and wood cut down for same, "wasp" first pattern foresight guard and stacking swivel. The early scope, retaining its sliding eyeshade is also an indication that it is an early rifle. The notch for the magazine cut-out is the same as on an early (i.e. 1941) forestock that I have spare. The sling swivel in front of the magazine would have been added late in WWII or afterwards.

The missing back sight is likely because on a Trails rifle was a problem as the standard No. 4's back sight was different and probably did not fit.

[Roger Payne]

.......or because a user wanted to be able to remove the bolt without removing the scope.

[bigduke6]

.......or because a user wanted to be able to remove the bolt without removing the scope.

An example below

[Surpmil]

.......or because a user wanted to be able to remove the bolt without removing the scope.

No doubt correct.

Those who have a rifle that has been through the war as almost all trials No.4(T)s were, should have a look at the bolt face where they may find, as I did, the dents left by a cleaning rod being used from the muzzle, which was the alternative to removing the backsight.

[MKV111Z]

I saw this in 2013 and mentioned it to one of the staff there I couldn't persuade him to remove it from the case so I could examine the rifle. I gather it came to them as part of a collection described as a No4T, clearly its a No1 Mk6 trials rifle converted to a No4T.

The guy I spoke to assured me that he had access to research material and was in contact with Ian Skennerton and would follow it up. Yeah right.

Cheers

H