Help with my G.R.I Ishapore

[cupking]

Inherited a rifle recently. Stamped 1925 SHT Le III ,but looks to have been FTR 1931 from the stamp on the other side of receiver. The bolt serial number does not match the receiver serial number . The rifle was reconditioned in 1994 by a "professional". I recently took rifle to a local
gunsmith to check for safety as I would like to fire the rifle. Here is the really wierd part.
The gunsmith said it was safe to fire but to never fire .308 , only 7.62x51 . Whaaaat...????
This is a .303 right ? Is this even possible or are these guys all wet ? Posted some pictures.
Thanks for the help.....

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

That's the difference between your local gunsmith - a jack of all trades and ......... And an Armourer

[cupking]

Thank you Peter. I am new to Lee Enfields, but know enough to question. So is the answer
no way ...its a 7.62 x 51 ? I can't imagine what might have happend had I chambered a 7.62x51 if in fact it is a .303. I'm also wondering if this rifle should have been left in its original state.

[Seaspriter]

The gunsmith said it was safe to fire but to never fire .308 , only 7.62x51 . Whaaaat...????

Your gunsmith was keeping you safe. While the .308 and NATO 7.62X51 are virtually interchangeable, they are not exactly the same.
The NATO round is rated at 50,000 lbs of pressure, while the 308 is 62,000 lbs. The brass is thicker on the NATO round. So, the NATO cartridge is stronger, and its ammo is less potent. If a gun is rated for the NATO round, it may not be rated for the 25% extra pressure of a 308. Thus your gunsmith was erring on the side of safety. If you blew up the gun with a 308, he might be liable for not giving you safe advice. Most guns made today (like the HK G-3/PTR 91 or M1 Garands converted to 308) will handle both, but historic guns might not.

[vintage hunter]

The NATO round is rated at 50,000 lbs of pressure, while the 308 is 62,000 lbs.

That's a common misconception caused by some published data for 7.62 NATO pressures being established using test equipment giving pressure readings in Copper Units instead of P.S.I. People tend to believe C.U.P. is equivalent to P.S.I. When tested on the same equipment the max pressures of the 2 are nearly identical. Max Pressure limit for the 7.62 NATO is 60,191 P.S.I., which is the same as the C.I.L. limit for commercial .308. In the U.S. the SAAMI limit for .308 is set at 62,00 P.S.I.
The biggest difference between 7.62 and .308 is commercial vs military CHS specs. Minimum CHS for commercial rifles is 1.630'', Max 1.634''. For military rifles the minimum CHS is 1.635'', max 1.640''

[Seaspriter]

I don't think an empty 7.62 will even chamber in a .303" rifle somehow. It will foul.......

It will -- just checked -- don't try it!

Your "gunsmith" was probably referring to the only "Ishapore" he is familiar with... The model 2A and 2A1, which are manufactured to fire .308. Your rifle, unless stamped otherwise, was manufactured to fire .303

And this is where the gunsmith created more confusion.

That's a common misconception caused by some published data for 7.62 NATO pressures being established using test equipment giving pressure readings in Copper Units instead of P.S.I. People tend to believe C.U.P. is equivalent to P.S.I. When tested on the same equipment the max pressures of the 2 are nearly identical. Max Pressure limit for the 7.62 NATO is 60,191 P.S.I., which is the same as the C.I.L. limit for commercial .308. In the U.S. the SAAMI limit for .308 is set at 62,00 P.S.I.

I just did triple checking and this too is correct, but 98% of the postings between the NATO and 308 round perpetuate the confusion. No wonder it takes a team of experts to sort out the confusion about ammo. That's one of the reasons modern weapons have the type of ammo stamped on the barrel in big figures.

Thanks mates for all the good corrections.

[SpikeDD]

Your "gunsmith" was probably referring to the only "Ishapore" he is familiar with... The model 2A and 2A1, which are manufactured to fire .308. Your rifle, unless stamped otherwise, was manufactured to fire .303 and is in fact a No.1 Mk.III manufactured at the Rifle Factory Ishapore, in India. It went through a "FTR" ( Factory Thorough Repair ) in 1931 and retained it's .303 status. If it had been converted to a .410 at the time of the FTR, it would have also been stamped .410 under the 1931. Another conversion done in India was to a "Single Loader" which would have converted the rifle to single shot .303. It would have been stamped "SL" under the 1931 if it had had this conversion done. With a mismatched bolt, just checking the head space is a small part of the procedure to check if the rifle is safe to fire. The load bearing surfaces on the bolt lugs need to be checked to make sure both lugs are making even contact with their corresponding contact surfaces in the receiver. This is something that is very much overlooked by those unfamiliar with Enfields.

[muffett.2008]

It looks like a very nice example of a collectable firearm

[Peter Laidler]

Er........ I think you have misread the thread Seaspriter and VH! It is a .303" rifle! It CANNOT shoot 7.62 or .308!!!!! It just shows that the so called gunsmith didn't even check what calibre it was. As I said, these local 'gunsmiths', sometimes, cruelly referred to by others - not me you understand - as enthusiastic amateurs, are jacks of all trades but masters of none. This example highlights that I feel.......

[sean6.555]

An EMPTY 7.62 NATO case should rattle around in your chamber like a arm in a wizzards sleeve (Quick dirty way to check). Looks like a three oH to my eyes but never can tell half a world away just looking at a pic .Stamped on the right wrist as a ShtLE III so should be .303 BRIT. Raise the rear sight to the vertical very gently remove the rear handguard check the SN and barrel markings just in case.Nice inheritance.