Stopping a german tank with a Garand

[bob4wd]

Was talking to a WWII vet yesterday, still very sharp BTW, and got to talking about my rifles collection. He mentioned that it was well-known at the time that a good shot, if he was super cool, could place a bullet between the turret and the hull of a German tank and it would go inside, ricocheting all over the place. He didn't recall just what model of tank this would have been (i imagine they would have all looked alike to a scared infantryman at the time!), but seemed to be pretty confident that this was true.
So I allowed as how that was very interesting and the conversation went on to other interesting things. The whole time, though, I was thinking that this fell into the same ejected Garand clip "ping" category- everybody knew somebody else that swore it was real, but nobody ever actuallyhad it happen to them. I can't imagine any tank designer allowing such an obvious defect to exist, but still.....
So could such a thing be possible? What say you?

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[Badger]

... not sure what else to add!!!!

Regards,
Doug

[browningautorifle]

So could such a thing be possible? What say you?

No, not even remotely possible. Anyone suggesting such a thing has never had their head inside a tank.

[Flying10uk]

There were some WW2 German tanks that were very difficult to put out action with allied A.P. rounds because of the thick armour. Some success could be achieved by hitting the lower part of the main gun barrel trunnion causing the shell to be deflected downwards through the roof of the tank where the armour was thinner. One or two of the German tanks in the Tank museum at Bovington still have the scars to show where this was attempted. It was a difficult shot to get a successful hit but not impossible and does show that there were weaknesses in design.

I would say the theory outlined in Post 1 is perfectly possible because German tanks did have weaknesses, as I have just described, as did allied tanks. Also there are supposedly a number of unfortunate cases involving early "bullet proof" limousines in which 1 or more of the occupant has been killed by an assassin firing through/round the edges of the doors. This has supposedly been rectified by a design change in more modern designs of armoured limousine so that a bullet can't get a direct path into the vehicle through the door edge gap.

[browningautorifle]

It was a difficult shot to get a successful hit but not impossible and does show that there were weaknesses in design.

I say again, put your head inside a tank. A rifle won't penetrate at the turret ring. An AP anti tank shell is different. They aren't weak.

I would say the theory outlined in Post 1 is perfectly possible because German tanks did have weaknesses

You're talking about a vehicle you know nothing about...

[Flying10uk]

You're talking about a vehicle you know nothing about...

I've told you before Jim don't be so quick to criticise others, you don't know everything.

I speak as an experienced engineer and you will make yourself look silly if someone comes along with evidence proving what is suggested in Post 1 is entirely possible.

[browningautorifle]

I speak as an experienced engineer

That's what I mean exactly. Go take a look and think about what you're suggesting. Badger used to live in a tank and he just laughed...(post 2)...

don't be so quick to criticise others, you don't know everything

I assure you, I have a good handle on armor and the inside of a tank. I was advance driver and maint instructor...you don't know anything about me.

[matthanne1]

Perhaps one may have better chance at the vision block, not the turret race ring. These are built to absorb and distribute the weight at angle as well as residual recoil from firing. Think the recoil assembly handles it all? This is why the chassis also jumps when firing. Most race rings are, first and foremost, channels in the hull roof and turret base in which those proverbial steel 1" or so ball bearings roll. Interior wall plates protect from debris and allow water runoff. An inner ring is toothed to facilitate the turret traverse drive. No clear path. A round will expend energy bouncing until it reaches the ball bearing race, in which it will likely be ground up.

Instead, the slit slots (not periscopes, but in particular the driver vision and machinegunner aiming ports and especially the nearly vertical turret walls) which did not have glass behind them are much more appealing, and while causing a brew-up is unlikely, there is a chance that eyes are behind that slot which WILL cause a reaction.

[Flying10uk]

.you don't know anything about me.

You don't anything about me either, Jim; don't be so critical of others.

[mrclark303]

I last saw the the excellent Bovington collection about 9 years back.
The King Tiger inparticular is both hugely impressive and absolutely terrifying in equal measure!

Seeing, hearing and feeling these things thundering towards you on the battlefield would strike the fear of god into any sane person.

Any infantryman would, I am sure, keep his head firmly down and not take pot shots with his rifle, to do so would invite the full fury of the armour and the supporting Pazner grenadears...