New Remington Pattern 14 - PICS

[thrawnformbi]

Morning all - I've wanted a P14 to add to my Enfield collection and came across this Remington at auction. I could see that the stock had been sanded but I felt confident I could get it back to a darker color. I was just hoping you all had some insights into the rifle. There are some markings I cant seem to find an explanation for.

I understand the maltese cross signifies emergency use only but its hard to gauge what that means 80 years later. Was this due to obsolescence or an armorers decision it was unsafe to fire.

I have found a CAI import stamp on the barrel. Does anyone remember when these were brought in and from where?

Anyway, hoping you all might have some info to help me better understand this rifle. I wonder if you think there are better P14's out there to add to my collection instead. The sale isnt final.


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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Promo]

This is an Eddystone stock. Bolt has been force matched, at least that serial is not from factory. Check rear sight backside top, should have a rifle serial on it as well.

[thrawnformbi]

Thanks Promo. Force matched by whom? Armorer or something more seditious like an importer?

[22SqnRAE]

Bolt has been force matched...

What exactly does this term mean?

The bolt has been replaced, in Service. So what? It's a maintenance replacement part, it gets worn and changes tolerance. Gets replaced and if fine. The asterisk (*) on the extractor body indicates that at Weedon this rifle had a bolt with a longer left locking lug fitted as a the Mark 1* modification, at the same time its volley sights and stock disc were removed.

So nothing forced, at all.

[Promo]

For not being a native speaker I was using the term that I've learnt for bolts that were matched to a rifle by anyone else than the factory. So I may put it into other words: the serial number on the bolt was not applied by the factory where it was made.

[Salt Flat]

As p14's go, this is in very good condition. Any sanding was lightly done. I like the non-finger groove stock. A lot of P14's were imported in the 1980's. I picked up a Winchester from Springfield Sporters back then. Nice find! Salt Flat

Here's a good thread about which countries the imports came from - see the post by Fredrick303.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=57416

[Kiwi]

I like the non-finger groove stock.

Looks to be an earlier production Eddystone 'fatboy' stock.

[thrawnformbi]

Thanks for the info. Interesting that a Remington would end up in a Eddystone stock.

[22SqnRAE]

Interesting that a Remington would end up in a Eddystone stock.

Sadly, not at all. A couple of things to consider:

1. During the Weedon Repair process, rifles were stripped, inspected, modified and reassembled with parts that met the minimum requirement of 70% or slightly more tolerance of new parts. Not a lot of care was taken to "match" rifle parts for collectors benefits in decades to come. They were a tool being maintained.

2. The surplus stock in civilian hands now came from all over the world, often from poorer, less caring Governments. They mixed and matched with what they had to meet a need. Not a collector's preference.

3. These rifles were deemed by the British Army to be obsolete and consigned to War Stocks post WWI. When the Home Guard was raised in precaution to the threat of German invasion, the Patt 14s (and M1917s) were released into the hands of the Home Guard. The training, awareness and conscientiousness of the Home Guard was varied. Some former WWI soldiers were smart and disciplined. They took matters more seriously. The same couldn't be said for all, either from ignorance, indifference or simple inability to comprehend the role and actions of a soldier. Many of the younger Home Guard, unfit or unsuitable for active duty, were not much more than school cadets.

4. On the raising of threat of invasion, the Patt 14s returned by the Home Guard were available for arming many smaller resistance or guerrilla groups, and supported Governments post war. And that's where a lot ended up. Not a lot of care and attention to them there.

So, finding a Remington in an ERA stock is common and to be expected. As is a Winchester in a Remington stock (I've had 2...) There's a lot of mixing and matching.

Recall that Eddysone, or the Balwin Locomotive Company, was a Remington subsidiary. In essence, ERA is simply a Remington satellite factory. Nothing surprising there. Winchester was the only independent manufacturer and that's why they were slower to start up manufacture, initially had higher quality rejection rates and decided to alter the design slightly to suit their production, whereas Remington and ERA stuck with the original specs.

[fjruple]

Recall that Eddysone, or the Balwin Locomotive Company, was a Remington subsidiary. In essence, ERA is simply a Remington satellite factory. Nothing surprising there. Winchester was the only independent manufacturer and that's why they were slower to start up manufacture, initially had higher quality rejection rates and decided to alter the design slightly to suit their production, whereas Remington and ERA stuck with the original specs.

Just a side note, on the relationships between Baldwin Locomative and Remington. The only thing they had in common they were all indirectly owned by J.P. Morgan, the banker and major stock holder. Baldwin in WWI in addition to production of steam locomatives also leased its land out to several "associate" corporations to produce arms and other munitions. The Eddystone plant was established by a subsidiary Remington Arms Company of Delaware (which is a separate entity from Remington Arms of New York) which leased the propriety and built the factory with the proviso that the factory be returned to Baldwin at the end of the war for locomotive production. Nice way to get someone else to pay for major post war expansions at some one else expense. During WWI, a separate section of Baldwin was leased by another Remington Subsidiary to produce artillery shells for the Brits and Russians. This plant actually blew up during the war killing a number of workers. This location now the site of Boeing Helicopters. The explosion only blew out windows in the Eddystone rifle plant. After termination of the Pattern 1914 contract, Eddystone started production of the Model of 1917 .30-06 rifle based on the Pattern 1914 rifle. Most folks believe that all Eddystones were produced by Remington of Delaware which is untrue. In January 1918, Eddystone was acquired by the Midvale Steel and Arms Company, another company who J.P. Morgan was a major stock holder. After the acquisition, Eddystone was known as the "Eddystone Rifle Plant." after the war the rifle plant was turned back over to Baldwin and all of ordnance materials and machinery was shipped to Rock Island Arsenal for storage as that material was owned by the US Army.