Strange mk3

[Chainsaw311]

[ATTACH] [/ATTACH]what is this thing?

[Roger Payne]

Extremely rare & valuable if I'm not mistaken. It isn't really my niche but it looks like one of the Mk3 SMLE's that were converted to MkV configuration.......Hopefully someone else more into these will soon chip in.......

[Chainsaw311]

Have you seen any approximate numbers where value is concerned?

[Chainsaw311]

Heres another pic.what does the letter T indicate?

[Roger Payne]

Pretty sure they're in the Lee Enfield Story. Not many made I don't think, though the MkV's manufactured as such were produced to the total of 20,000. But if this rifle is what I think it may be, it is rather scarcer as it is a conversion from the MkIII to the MkV pattern. The T is the letter prefix letter of the serial number.

As mentioned above, these variants are not really my field, & so I could be totally wrong about this. Probably best to let someone more knowledgeable than I give their opinion.

[Terry Hawker]

Well, well, well. Congratulations on acquiring this scarce member of the Lee-Enfield family, Chainsaw. Other than the poor photos at the top of page 168 of The Lee-Enfield Story and page 188 of The Lee-Enfield, yours is the only other example I have ever seen since acquiring mine in December of 2002. It is nice to know that there are at least two survivors. I was going to refer you to the article I wrote on it that was posted on this very website some years ago, but for some reason unknown to me that article seem to have disappeared. Now I freely admit that I am still the complete Luddite and suffer from CRS, so perhaps it is just my lack of computer skills and diminished mental acuity that prevents me from finding it now. If Badger would be so kind as to pull that article out of the ether from hence it went, then re-post it in the Knowledge Library, I believe the many photos comparing it to a production Mk V, along with the text, might be of some value in answering a few of your questions.

At the time I referred to this particular SMLE model as a true, MK V Trials Rifle to differentiate it from the 20,000-odd standard production rifles that are still mislabeled "Trials Rifles" by so many collectors. Now I'm not about to rewrite that article, but thanks to correspondence since with Paul Breakey, there is one thing I would change if it does resurface. As Paul kindly suggested, "concept rifle", or "development rifle", may actually be a more correct nomenclature to apply to this piece than "Trials Rifle". Note that the example in the photos in Skennerton's works are missing the unique humped safety with rear volley sight arm formed with a bow to clear it, as present on both my example and Chainsaw's. One thing I will repeat for Chainsaw's benefit - Herb Woodend wanted mine for the Pattern Room, as that magnificent collection lacked one.

Cheers,

Terry

[Chainsaw311]

Well, well, well. Congratulations on acquiring this scarce member of the Lee-Enfield family, Chainsaw. Other than the poor photos at the top of page 168 of The Lee-Enfield Story and page 188 of The Lee-Enfield, yours is the only other example I have ever seen since acquiring mine in December of 2002. It is nice to know that there are at least two survivors. I was going to refer you to the article I wrote on it that was posted on this very website some years ago, but for some reason unknown to me that article seem to have disappeared. Now I freely admit that I am still the complete Luddite and suffer from CRS, so perhaps it is just my lack of computer skills and diminished mental acuity that prevents me from finding it now. If Badger would be so kind as to pull that article out of the ether from hence it went, then re-post it in the Knowledge Library, I believe the many photos comparing it to a production Mk V, along with the text, might be of some value in answering a few of your questions.

At the time I referred to this particular SMLE model as a true, MK V Trials Rifle to differentiate it from the 20,000-odd standard production rifles that are still mislabeled "Trials Rifles" by so many collectors. Now I'm not about to rewrite that article, but thanks to correspondence since with Paul Breakey, there is one thing I would change if it does resurface. As Paul kindly suggested, "concept rifle" may actually be a more correct nomenclature to apply to this piece than "Trials Rifle". Note that the example in the photos in Skennerton's works are missing the unique humped safety with rear volley sight arm formed with a bow to clear it, as present on both my example and Chainsaw's. One thing I will repeat for Chainsaw's benefit - Herb Woodend wanted mine for the Pattern Room, as that magnificent collection lacked one.

Cheers,

Terry

As soon as I can get an approximate value of it,I'll let it be known what I paid for it,lol.

[Chainsaw311]

I was watching Ian Mcollum video on the no1mk5 trials rifle,he mentions the mk3's that were converted but says they made a "couple"of them.Do you think its possible they only made two of these rifles?

[smle addict]

In looking through Skennertons three books (The British Service Lee, The Lee Enfield Story, and The Lee Enfield), the typical batch size for any trials patterns was approximately 1,000 for troop testing. However, some batches were as few as 50 and as high as 2500.

Your rifle is certainly rare, but I think it a safe bet more than a two were made (but not many). In reading this section, page 187 of Skennertons last book, he makes mention of some Mk III rifles being converted to Mk V pattern. No number is given, citing the process as cost prohibitive.

This is by no means a definitive answer, nor is it even a ballpark guess. I have seen one in a friends collection, yours on this forum, Peter mentions a couple at Warminster, and Terry Hawker owns one. Counting the one in Skennertons works, that makes approximately 6(?).

[Chainsaw311]

In looking through Skennertons three books (The British Service Lee, The Lee Enfield Story, and The Lee Enfield), the typical batch size for any trials patterns was approximately 1,000 for troop testing. However, some batches were as few as 50 and as high as 2500.

Your rifle is certainly rare, but I think it a safe bet more than a two were made (but not many). In reading this section, page 187 of Skennertons last book, he makes mention of some Mk III rifles being converted to Mk V pattern. No number is given, citing the process as cost prohibitive.

This is by no means a definitive answer, nor is it even a ballpark guess. I have seen one in a friends collection, yours on this forum, Peter mentions a couple at Warminster, and Terry Hawker owns one. Counting the one in Skennertons works, that makes approximately 6(?).

According to some research from a person at the museum at Leeds,they made 20 of these.