Late Nagoya Type 99

[Aragorn243]

Again your ignorance of the arisakas is evident, the last ditchers had weak steel ,weak welds, and are junk, i would not pay 50 bucks for 1 , i have had several in my hands and laughed at the junk quality and how dangerous they look ,keep shooting em man you may get hit in head with the bolt and if you survive comeback to reality , i would not fire one if you piad me too JMO now i asked to just agree to disagree but you want to keep showing you sure do not know much about those last ditch junkers , not trainng rifles they threw everything they had in last yr of war in feild, quality was drastically reduced as was the quality and strength of the steel.,i have seen them straight out of ww2 pacific theatre blown up and dangerous to even fire, even better my uncle fought against them, and brought two early kokuras home, which i now own, and saw many blown up last ditch rifles on iwo jima and okinawa,so again you are crazy to even fire one read up dude , but hey your life have at it, ill stick with the early models i know wont kill me or someone next to me ,my opinion and nothing you can say will change it they are junk. Known fact, amd you are either very brave or very stupid to fire one ever. most all are dangerous to fire, the steel was not near as strong on those last ditch clunkers, i know what a training rifle is, do you?this discussion is over you shoot em ill never.Just agree to disagree and fire all those last ditchers you want man ill never do it.

It is your ignorance that is evident. All it takes is a quick search of all the gun forums which are filled with experts who have personal experience with these as well as the testing results from numerous tests performed on these rifles. They do not have weak steel, weak welds and are not "junk". They are UNFINISHED. They did not take the time to polish out the welds, the lathe marks or other cosmetic issues which have nothing to do with the function of the rifle.

There is no agreeing to disagree, you are flat our wrong. If you choose to continue being wrong, that is your right but it isn't going to fly for you to spread your ignorance around to those that know better.

I HAVE READ UP ON IT, just like everyone else here has read up on it. You are WRONG. There are numerous articles in the major gun magazines debunking this "myth" of junk Arisakas. Every one of them states that the confusion arises from TRAINING RIFLES being confused with actual combat service rifles.

Like any old rifle, they should be checked out carefully before firing but chances of one blowing up are smaller than most other types. The Type 38 is the strongest ever tested, the Type 99 was the second strongest. The Germans used weak steel at the very end of the war in some rifles but these are extremely rare, as are any of the "emergency" rifles Japan produced.

[WarPig1976]

Although "Last ditch" isn't the proper term when it's spoken we all know what is meant. I think it's fair to say its a nickname, it conveys the attitude of the victors. Even though Japan was on its last legs, she was putting up a "Last stand" crashing perfectly serviceable aircraft into ships, fighting to the last round of ammunition then making a suicidal bayonet charge, Making perfectly serviceable yet crude rifles to arm her troops.

To say firing a last ditch is going to result in death simply isn't true, that's not to say I wouldn't look it over real good first which we should be doing anyway. Remember,,, Mums the word...

[Aragorn243]

If late war Arisakas were blowing up, I think we'd be hearing about it considering quite a few on these boards fire them on a regular basis as do members of all the other gun boards out there. There would be warnings in the magazines and books printed on the subject as there are with other rifles such as the early number Springfields. These rifles were brought back by the thousands and used by the thousands, many sporterized. There simply is no dramatic evidence out there that there is a hazard presented by these rifles that is not equal to or similar to all other old military types. On the contrary, they have found to be stronger than all other types. The fit and finish of the "last ditch" Arisaka is not much different than that of the Mosin Nagants produced during the war and frankly, the quality of fit is much better.

As for stamped metal parts, the 03-A3 has stamped metal parts, the Enfields have stamped metal parts. Stamped metal parts are cheaper and easier to produce and were used by most combatants during the war. The Japanese went one step further and used wood buttplates to save metal. that doesn't mean they skimped on the barrel or receiver. That MUM represented their emperor who they considered to be God himself. It wasn't going to be stamped on a non-functional weapon and never was on any training rifle built as such.

[jmoore]

Anybody have photos of these "blown up" late war rifles? Any hard to dispute evidence at all? A friend picked up a collection of over three hundred Japanese rifles some years back that included everything from matchlocks on up to the rope slinged late war rifles and even one of those experimental oversized cast iron receiver jobs. It looked kinda scary, but all the other "modern" stuff was shot at least a little. I forget how many I ended up getting out of that lot, but it's mostly the more prosaic examples.

There's likely more "exploded" Model 700s out in the world than Arisakas! Have seen several of the former and none of the latter.

[Salt Flat]

Midmich, I think it is a series 10. It's a little hard to decipher as the 10 mark and the 12 mark look a lot alike. Maybe someone ellse will chime in. Salt Flat

[WarPig1976]

Midmich, I think it is a series 10. It's a little hard to decipher as the 10 mark and the 12 mark look a lot alike. Maybe someone ellse will chime in. Salt Flat

After a back and forth to web page with good illustrations I would say 99% it's a 10th series Nagoya. Gotta leave the 1% though because we know they're never exact.!!

[Midmichigun]

Gents,
I am back to my "regular" page now with markings and series numbers. Amazing how you loose things on the 'net if you don't bookmark.

http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

As such, I was looking at the series 10 through 12 production figures. Is it possible to nail the approximate time that the rifle was made... Late 44... early 45 etc? As we all know, they were bombed out heavily and no known exact dates are recorded.

Just out of curiosity, as most of the early war features have been deleted from this one (moveable sights... chrome)... but it lacks rope slings and "angry beaver" machine marks to a large extent...

When I get a "correct" end cap to the rifle, then I can start machining out the "duffel cut" fore end and upper handguard.

[Aragorn243]

I may have some good news and bad news if it is a series 10 Nagoya. The good news is it should have a separate fore stock. Which doesn't exactly make sense that there is a bit of stock protruding from the barrel band. The bad news is the correct front band is permanently affixed to the barrel which is going to be tough to find and tough to put on.

I have a late war Nagoya that still has the sight guards. The rear sight on mine is opposite of how yours is and is not welded in place so mine is probably a series 8.

Looking at mine again I'm thinking if you take the screw out of the barrel band, that small piece of stock should come right out. The screw is probably holding it in place.

[Midmichigun]

Aragorn,
The plot thickens! I look forward to what you think of this!
So with your input, I took the stock off the rifle. The "stub" is one pc with the stock!!

I examined the stock for marks or serial numbers (I have a few Arisaka's where the SN is on the wood too). I found this:

I believe it is a common inspector mark. Upon examination of the receiver, I have symbols that match the stock.... in spades..



Now as to your thoughts on the front band... here is where it is supposed to be....


Now if I can get an example (photos or physical) I can machine one out to match.... Or keep my eyes peeled until one shows up (miracle on ebay).

Examination of the magwell uncovered something I didn't expect. The magwell was blued, but then there is this.....

A last minute addition or repair? Note the damaged blue and the resultant rust?

Here is a nice treat for all of you budding gunsmiths...

Bubba should have trued up the fore end!

[bearrowland]

I love that restored rifle on the bottom! Just my .02 but I'd try to bring it back. It might not match numbers wise, but it would be a fun project