1889 Swiss 4mm Flobert adapter

[Eaglelord17]

Hi all,

Well today my 1889 Swiss arrived, unfortunately I don't have pictures of that beauty yet (I will provide some later), but it had this odd thing in the chamber. I only discovered it because I went to put a cleaning rod down the barrel to see how the bore was (it was a little dirty), and the cleaning rod wouldn't fit. So I beat it out with a cleaning rod and hammer, and I found this



Doing some research it seems to be a 4mm Flobert adapter. Unfortunately I don't have any of the other parts, but from what I understand this was used for parlour shooting indoors.

Are these common, or rare or what have you? I really don't know much about them as I have never had a interest in parlour guns or even trainer guns. I just want to be able to use my 1889, the way it was intended.

There doesn't appear to be any alterations to the rifle, but if someone who knows something about these would be able to verify that these kits didn't require any major modifications to the rifle which would make it unsafe to shoot with GP-90/23 loads please let me know.

Information

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Without actually having it in my hands:

The object is round, without any obvious orientation lug. The bore stub is (presumably) centered, and the striker will hit the center line. So it cannot be used for rimfire (Flobert) ammo. It is probably for the 4mmM20 ammo, which is a mini-centerfire type. Practically unknown outside the German-speaking countries, very scarce, and expensive if you find any.

Since the Swiss apparently never introduced a smallbore trainer (the ones you see advertised in .22 are commercial conversions) the idea was to save full-bore ammo without making any irreversible alteration to the rifle.

4mmM20 has just about disappeared since tightened regulations mean that there is now no exemption for any kind of cartridge gun, regardless of the energy level. So it is now treated like any other ammo and the adapters have to be licensed as separate weapons parts. I would rate it as rare. Keep it as a souvenir or sell it to a collector.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Looking again, I realise that I may be wrong. The back end shows a taper that is probably the same as the shoulder on a G90 case. That means the adapter was well forwards in the chamber, and there should have been an intermediate striker in a sleeve between the bolt face and the back of the adapter. In which case it might be for 4mm Flobert after all!

Please post a good photo of the back end of the adapter, to show any recess for a rim.

[Eaglelord17]

This is a photo I found online of the whole kit, it does look like it uses some sort of intermediate for holding the round. (it is the third picture on this page)

International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - Lienhard 4mm for the Swiss 7.5mm rifle

It appears to just be a drop in kit, my biggest concern is just if there is any chamber modification required, as I wish to use my 1889 with some properly loaded GP 90/23 but am not willing to have my face blown off.

My understanding is this type of kit would be used to practice indoors down the hallway type deal, almost like a airsoft or bb gun with the proper backing.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thanks for a great link! Very, very instructive.

It appears to just be a drop in kit, my biggest concern is just if there is any chamber modification required, as I wish to use my 1889 with some properly loaded GP 90/23 but am not willing to have my face blown off.

I don't think you need to worry. There was no chamber modification, the whole point being to preserve the rifle unaltered for normal full-bore use.
As to the missing portion: with a small lathe it ought to be possible to turn up the missing section and dimension it to use normal Boxer caps. If, of course, that sort of thing is legal where you live. It ought to be, as the principle is the same as used in the Pedersoli "White Hawk", the closest thing you can get these days to a parlor gun. However, there's common sense, and there are gun laws, and they don't always match up.

[Eaglelord17]

I do think it is a cool concept, and it really adds to the history of the rifle. I didn't find a name tag unfortunately but it does go to show the type of person who owned it. The sling that was on it was dated 1926, so it was being used still around that time period.

When I get the time I will make a photo montage for you all showing the evolution of the Swiss main infantry rifles, step by step. It will take a bit though, so hopefully in a week I will have it done.