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Thread: Irish (?) contract No4 rifles

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Peter Laidler Irish (?) contract No4 rifles 04-01-2015, 11:42 AM
Brian Dick Century Arms International in... 04-01-2015, 12:20 PM
Buccaneer You are quite right,... 04-01-2015, 03:14 PM
snipershot1944 It's kind of like the NIW M1... 04-01-2015, 01:24 PM
read6737 Just a side note. It is... 04-01-2015, 04:03 PM
Mk VII The Craggy Island Defence... 04-01-2015, 06:41 PM
Seaspriter Gentlemen, thank you for your... 04-01-2015, 06:45 PM
Brian Dick read6737, No Sir, Craig... 04-02-2015, 12:20 AM
Frederick303 Capt Laidler... 04-02-2015, 12:41 AM
Seaspriter Thanks Frederick/Fritz. It's... 04-02-2015, 09:32 AM
mike16 the problem with reading... 08-14-2015, 03:34 AM
mike16 what emergency? I think... 08-14-2015, 02:54 AM
read6737 Thanks for the corection... 04-02-2015, 03:48 AM
jrhead75 Great thread all around! Been... 04-02-2015, 10:17 PM
bigduke6 Not much a secret Peter, its... 04-02-2015, 04:22 AM
Frederick303 Seaspriter. Methinks that... 04-02-2015, 11:08 AM
mike16 Was pete in the Irish army... 08-14-2015, 04:34 AM
rickv100 So Great Britian made rifles... 04-02-2015, 01:59 PM
RCEMERalf LB No 4s missing for Depot... 04-02-2015, 07:06 PM
Eaglelord17 I have some buddies who went... 04-02-2015, 07:24 PM
Brian Dick There was military contract... 04-02-2015, 08:08 PM
rickv100 I thought the Egyptians made... 04-02-2015, 08:41 PM
Brian Dick I'm sure the CIA and other... 04-02-2015, 09:29 PM
Frederick303 I recall the sudden... 04-02-2015, 10:23 PM
Seaspriter This story is getting better... 04-02-2015, 11:57 PM
Eaglelord17 Why buy from India (a neutral... 04-03-2015, 07:57 AM
ssj "My uneducated guess is that... 04-03-2015, 01:25 AM
Frederick303 SSJ, re-read my first post on... 04-03-2015, 01:34 AM
Peter Laidler In spite of these 'records' -... 04-03-2015, 05:52 AM
Seaspriter Peter, what I'm going to... 04-03-2015, 09:28 AM
Peter Laidler Mmmmm......... Some, but not... 04-03-2015, 11:29 AM
Frederick303 Captain Laidler: ... 04-03-2015, 11:49 AM
rickv100 After reading some of... 04-03-2015, 02:07 PM
Frederick303 On the reason for Ireland... 04-03-2015, 05:18 PM
Seaspriter Frederick, as an amateur... 04-04-2015, 09:32 AM
bigduke6 Most probably true Rick (if... 04-03-2015, 06:15 PM
Robert303 Enfields in Afghanistan 04-04-2015, 12:23 AM
Peter Laidler Fred, got all your messages... 04-04-2015, 07:03 AM
Frederick303 Capt Laidler, I await your... 04-04-2015, 01:39 PM
Seaspriter Frederick, don't be dismayed.... 04-04-2015, 02:24 PM
RobD There is, as far as I know,... 04-04-2015, 02:18 PM
Frederick303 Seaspriter, I was not... 04-04-2015, 03:38 PM
Mk VII They did take some other... 04-04-2015, 04:38 PM
SpikeDD Although I don't have any... 04-04-2015, 05:22 PM
Frederick303 RobDD Not to get back into... 04-04-2015, 11:51 PM
RobD Frederick, do you know what... 04-05-2015, 10:35 AM
therno Irish (?) contract No4 rifles 04-05-2015, 06:26 PM
Mk VII I seem to recall that... 04-05-2015, 10:49 AM
ssj Fredrick I have an Irish... 04-05-2015, 03:16 PM
Frederick303 Since Folks seem to be... 04-05-2015, 11:26 PM
Patrick Chadwick For that very informative... 04-06-2015, 02:22 AM
Thunderbox The Irish at some point -... 04-06-2015, 04:06 AM
stencollector I am going to meander a bit... 04-06-2015, 11:15 AM
Frederick303 well judging by the counter,... 04-06-2015, 02:41 PM
Kev G Sten collector PM me if you... 04-06-2015, 01:33 PM
Frederick303 The Irish SMLE, part 2, 1924... 04-06-2015, 09:09 PM
Patrick Chadwick Great stuff Frederick! ... 04-07-2015, 03:47 PM
Mk VII The Home Guard in England had... 04-07-2015, 04:42 PM
Frederick303 I believe the same conditions... 04-07-2015, 05:04 PM
stevebc I'm interested in the "Irish... 04-07-2015, 05:21 PM
Frederick303 According to the Irish... 04-07-2015, 10:48 PM
stevebc Just seen over at Gunboards:... 04-08-2015, 11:40 AM
ssj UF A26980 appears to have... 04-08-2015, 03:02 PM
Frederick303 I will be adding a few more... 04-09-2015, 11:28 AM
Flying10uk Some years ago I seem to... 06-06-2015, 05:42 AM
Peter Laidler Lee Enfields.........? Why... 06-06-2015, 06:35 AM
Frederick303 When I asked the US ATF for... 06-08-2015, 02:02 AM
Peter Laidler While you are requesting the... 06-08-2015, 07:12 AM
mike16 sounds like you dont like the... 08-07-2015, 01:11 AM
Peter Laidler Your comment in line 1, para... 08-07-2015, 05:42 AM
Beerhunter Many of the terms used about... 08-07-2015, 07:04 AM
Eaglelord17 Unfortunately in Canada the... 08-07-2015, 10:02 AM
Robert303 The important thing about... 08-07-2015, 12:33 PM
Frederick303 Mike 16. If you read the... 08-07-2015, 12:39 PM
Beerhunter I would say that is a... 08-10-2015, 03:34 AM
mike16 I read the entire thread... 08-14-2015, 04:45 AM
Flying10uk Is there any evidence that... 08-07-2015, 01:35 PM
Robert303 The interesting words here... 08-07-2015, 02:06 PM
Peter Laidler Getting off the subject again... 08-07-2015, 02:27 PM
mike16 I think that letting it rest... 08-17-2015, 04:26 PM
Homer Yeah I'm curious too Mike.... 08-07-2015, 05:58 PM
Vincent Yep. That’s a fact. I still... 08-07-2015, 10:06 PM
therno Here some DOD Winchester... 08-09-2015, 10:49 PM
Flying10uk One of the main reasons for... 08-08-2015, 06:08 AM
Peter Laidler It doesn't work on a straight... 08-10-2015, 05:11 AM
Frederick303 Well folks have been debating... 08-10-2015, 02:09 PM
Frederick303 Anyone know how to get a... 08-10-2015, 02:26 PM
Mk VII Try taking a .jpg of the page... 08-10-2015, 03:58 PM
Flying10uk Mike, if I understand your... 08-14-2015, 01:32 PM
Frederick303 Just a few comments: I am... 08-14-2015, 03:03 PM
mike16 mine has no markings to... 08-14-2015, 02:44 PM
mike16 a letter is indeed a primary... 08-14-2015, 03:38 PM
Frederick303 I have a copy of the letter. ... 08-14-2015, 04:21 PM
mike16 Is this directed at Me? no... 08-17-2015, 04:51 PM
Robert303 The beauty of the... 08-14-2015, 04:33 PM
Flying10uk Mike, I'm interested to see... 08-15-2015, 05:50 AM
Frederick303 Mike 16, first let me... 08-15-2015, 09:56 AM
mike16 Yes,I gladly embrace your... 08-17-2015, 06:58 PM
Vincent Frederick, Maybe I missed... 08-15-2015, 11:49 AM
Frederick303 There are no official records... 08-15-2015, 01:06 PM
Peter Laidler These lists do still exist... 08-15-2015, 01:53 PM
Robert303 It's British not English 08-15-2015, 03:36 PM
Badger :surrender: ........ ;) ... 08-17-2015, 05:42 PM
Peter Laidler LAIDLER 'You still haven't... 08-18-2015, 05:49 AM
Badger Thread Closed ... :banghead:... 08-18-2015, 06:22 AM
  1. #11
    Legacy Member Frederick303's Avatar
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    Mike 16.

    If you read the entire thread, you will see some folks have done the primary research, including letters from the Irish ministry of defense archives. There is a paper trail on these rifles, both in terms of acquisition records and disposition records. The official published letters from the MOD say 50,000 were purchased. the disposition/sales records say 49,000 were sold between 1991 and 1996. Both sources are Irish army Archives.

    What Capt. Laidlericon is saying, and considering that he has been at the heart of the Britishicon MOD system for something like 50 years when the good captain speaks most of us listen, is that this information is wrong. He has not elaborated on exactly why but has stated that serial number lists he has seen back up his contention..

    Given that the number of Brens to rifles should be at a rate of ~10 to 1, and the Irish only bought ~ 2,000 Brens, and retained ~10,000 SMLE until circa 1984 to 1987, it does give one pause with regards to the official published 50,000 figure of No4 Mk II rifles procured. 2,000 Brens to 60,000 rifles seems kind of off.

    In any case the final declaration of truth will come between 2021 and 2026, when the Irish archives will open the records on the sales and the serial number lists will then become available.

  2. Thank You to Frederick303 For This Useful Post:


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