Quote Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
the 7x57 with a round nose may not have been much superior in terms of velocity then the round nose 303 or the krag jorgenson,

but it was superior at range. That is what actually mattered in the long run.

Ironically your presupposition against the use of long range shooting with these old loads is rather stupid. Even the black powder enfields had a rear sight for 1,000 yards.
Can you even see a person at 1000 yards? Especially if that person is trying to hide from you... What if they're in khaki or camo colored clothing... Could you see them and have enough time to take a shot before they move? How about if a person takes a step back and fourth at 1000 yards in either direction... Do you think you could line your sights fast enough to actually even see the target move? I doubt you could. The front blade of the sight on basically any rifle would easily cover 3 humans torsos at that distance... Please think rationally.

Also, you have misunderstood what I'm saying... I'm not saying the cartridge couldn't do it ... The 303 cartridge very easily could make a hit at that distance, even in compressed black powder... Add yourself and a rifle into that mix and your odds are near zero at 1000. No military trained a rifle man to shoot 1000 yards back then... The Britishicon didn't even have what is now know as snipers when the black powder cartridge 303 was around. The Germans had trained snipers in WW1 ... They were trained to shoot within 400 yards, with a scope... again, it's not about if the cartridge could do past 400 yards... it easily can, people cant. The only reason 303 was black powder to start with was because the British were working on a smokeless load and couldn't get the powder formula right... 303 was designed from the beginning to be smokeless... It was only through unfortunate circumstances that it wasn't. As for long range, yes 7x57 will win but at point blank distance (300 yards) both cartridges during the round nose heavy ball phase would perform equally well.

Long range machine gun fire and volley fire was for 1000 yards...

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------
Quote Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill View Post
Its not just about velocity with the 7x57 being superior to the .303 or the 30-40 Kragicon. The bullet for the 7x57 is 40 to 50 grs lighter then the others and higher velocity. That translates into lighter felt recoil which adds in properly aimed fire. The 7mm is a penetrator. Just ask the 6000 Elephants Bell shot with the 7x57.
303 Brit is a very soft shooting cartridge IMO for a 30 Cal bullet, probably the softest shooting 30 Cal in a battle rifle. I have trouble telling much of a difference in felt recoil between 303 and 7x57. On paper 7x57 would have less but it's very subjective... Hard for me to tell the difference. I have a hard time seeing how superior 7x57 is to 303. Within point blank range, where most shots are fired... The difference is minimal...