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Timing Issue?
I was at the range today and there was a fellow there that I know that just purchased a Garand and was attempting to shoot it. I saw he was having problems and went over to see if I could help. I looked the rifle over for anything obviously broken and found nothing and then I checked to see how it was greased and that was also good. The rifle was loading kind of hard and when the clip got to the point where it should lock the clip latch and release the op rod catch it took a pretty good push to achieve this. I loaded the clip popped the bolt forward and fired, then tried to squeeze another one off and, "click" the hammer falls on nothing. I pulled the bolt back and locked it and observed the chamber was empty. I racked the bolt forward and fired again, and when I squeezed the trigger agian I got the same "click". The rifle would not strip the next round off the clip and chamber it. I fired four rounds and of the four two stove piped. I took the rifle apart and checked the op rod spring length, it was 21 and 1/2", way out of wack. I had one of my Garands along so I stripped it down and switched out the op rod spring. I assembled everything, loaded up a different clip(just in case the clip was bent and was causing the hard loading)and when I tried to fire it I had the same result. I looked the op rod over and saw a couple of shiny wear marks so I changed out the op rod and the spring and when I fired it I got the same result. I disassembled the rifle again and tried a field check on the timing to see why the clip was loading hard. I loaded a clip with fired cases and pushed it in till I heard the clip latch lock and saw that the op rod catch was not releasing at the bottom. The op rod catch in his rifle is a milled Winchester piece and it didn't seem to catch the op rod just right so I switched it out and checked the timing again with the clip of empties and it seem to release the op rod catch just after the clip latch locked and load a lot easier. I put the rifle back together again and loaded and fired and had the same result as when I started, it would not chamber the next round. I then looked over the gas cylinder and plug for signs of pressure escaping and found none. I then started to wonder if he had a bad reciever so I changed everything over from my rifle to his, gas plug, gas cylinder, gas cylinder lock, op rod, op rod spring, op rod catch, follower arm, bullet guide, follower, and bolt. I loaded it(it loaded like it should)and fired, squeezed and fired and when the last shot left the chamber the clip ejected like it should. I have his rifle at the house now and I'm trying to figure out which part is the culprit(I know I could have changed out each part one at a time, reassembled and found out but I didn't have enough time). At the risk of sounding dumb, is it possible the bullet guide could be causing any of the problem, it's a milled Winchester part and it binds in the reciever instead of sitting in it's spot with a touch of play. Here is a picture of the pressure the bullet guide will take before it falls down.
Here is the wear on the edges and it still fits tight.
Will a Garand fire without the clip being latched all the way down? That's why I wonder if the bullet guide was not letting the clip latch all the way down and then the rifle couldn't strip off the next round.I wish I knew which part fixed the chambering bug.
Thanks!
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Last edited by GUTS; 03-05-2010 at 01:05 AM.
Reason: spelling
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03-05-2010 01:02 AM
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I had a similar problem but the culprit was the Korean surplus ball ammo I was using. Needed excessive force to push in the enbloc. Also had a cycling problem with de-linked Lake City. Most of the problems I've ever had were ammo related.
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Originally Posted by
Stumedic
I had a similar problem but the culprit was the Korean surplus ball ammo I was using. Needed excessive force to push in the enbloc. Also had a cycling problem with de-linked Lake City. Most of the problems I've ever had were ammo related.
He was shooting LC 67 so I figured the ammo was good to go.
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Originally Posted by
JBS
I looked through there pretty closely and I can't really pin down the part that was causing the cycling problem. I thought that when I switched out the op rod, op rod spring, and op rod catch it would have made the rifle run. It didn't untill I changed the bullet guide, follower arm, and follower. I suppose there is enough wear on all three of these parts that changing one particular piece wouldn't fix the rifle. Thanks for the help.
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I normally make one change at a time. Saves on parts but I can also just walk out side my shop and cap a couple rounds into the test pit. Glad you got it fixed. keep your old parts as some may still be serviceable.
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Guts - in a word to your question YES, and your not being stupid. I had one rifle that I could not get to function correctly and it came down to putting in one of Fulton Armory's heavy clip latch springs - after changing everything else first.
Measure the bullet guide 'hump' or radius in front of the hole were the pin goes thru. From the flat edge to the top of the radius it should be a minimum
of .179 - when new that should be .183 if less than .179 it's scrap.
Another possible cause that I've had on a fellas rifle is the follower arm along with the bullet guide. Check to see if there is any shiney areas on them were the follower arm moves inside the bullet guide groove. If your follower arm or bullet guide is at all tweaked or bent and rubbing it will cause very hard insertion of the clip and cause the cycling motion to bind up.
Also check the clip latch and make sure it moves smoothly and is not blocked
from it's full motion with dirt or grime.
Hope you find it - good luck
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Originally Posted by
Jocko
Guts - in a word to your question YES, and your not being stupid. I had one rifle that I could not get to function correctly and it came down to putting in one of Fulton Armory's heavy clip latch springs - after changing everything else first.
Measure the bullet guide 'hump' or radius in front of the hole were the pin goes thru. From the flat edge to the top of the radius it should be a minimum
of .179 - when new that should be .183 if less than .179 it's scrap.
Another possible cause that I've had on a fellas rifle is the follower arm along with the bullet guide. Check to see if there is any shiney areas on them were the follower arm moves inside the bullet guide groove. If your follower arm or bullet guide is at all tweaked or bent and rubbing it will cause very hard insertion of the clip and cause the cycling motion to bind up.
Also check the clip latch and make sure it moves smoothly and is not blocked
from it's full motion with dirt or grime.
Hope you find it - good luck
Thank you Sir!
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If your own good operating rod did not fix the cycling problem, I would guess that the gas cylinder is worn and not allowing sufficient gas for correct function. I would bet that your op rod and cylinder would make that Garand sing again.
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I have found most Timing Issue are in the clip latch and or clip latch spring.
If you can get hold of a timing gauge you can find bad part or parts very fast!