No4Mk1(T) for sale over on CGN

[No4Mk1(T)]

Good day all. Up for sale (not by me) over on Canadian Gunnutz is a No4Mk1(T).
CanadianGunNutz.com
I’ve been looking over the photos the seller has provided and they just didn’t look right. I’m sure it is a legitimate No4T but I suspect the forearm is a replacement. Also looking at the S51 on the butt stock I’ve never seen a such a large space between all three letters/digits. I’ve seen a space between the S and 51 but never between all three. Now I hasten to add that I’ve only handled 7 or so No4(T)’s (4 of which I owned) so I’m just wondering how common this is? Any thoughts? It’s also missing it’s front sight protector and magazine. The asking price is…..$6000.00 !! The sellers text reads as:

NO.4 MK1 (T) Sniper Rifle

I am offering for sale a World War II production British No.4 MK1(T) Sniper Rifle manufactured by BSA in 1945. The No.4 MK1(T) Sniper Rifles were standard production BSA No.4 Rifles that were selected for accuracy and sent to Holland & Holland for conversion to sniper configuration. The rifles were fitted with a No. 32 Telescopic Sight on a detachable mount attached to pads on the left side of the receiver by two set screws. The mount was designed to permit the telescopic sight to be removed from the rifle and re-attached with minimum adjustment to the rifle zero. Each sight was calibrated to the individual rifle by Holland & Holland and the mount and sight were serial numbered to the rifle. The rifle stocks were fitted with a special wooden cheek piece to provide the proper eye relief for the telescopic sight. The 3X telescopic sight has a 'pointer and crosswire' reticule and click-adjustable windage and elevation drums. The rear sight was modified by removal of the battle sight aperture. Each rifle was furnished with a wooden transit case, a scope can, leather lens covers and a U.S. M1907 leather sling. The rifle has a black phosphate finish. The stock, forearm and handguard are oil-finished walnut. The left side of the butt-socket is stamped with the BSA code (M47), the date of manufacture (1945), the serial number (X32357) and the "telescope rifle" designation (TR). The left side of the receiver is stamped with the model designation "No.4 MK1" and a large "T" indicating selection for sniper modification. The serial number is stamped on the proper locations on the back of the bolt handle, the underside of the forearm and on the left side of the telescopic sight mount. The underside of the butt is stamped with the Holland & Holland conversion code "S51". The telescopic sight serial number "24515" is stamped on the top of the stock wrist. The telescopic sight tube is roll-stamped: "TEL. SIGHTING/No 32 MK3/ No 24515/OS 2039A/^ (Broad Arrow). The base and rings are stamped with the sequential assembly numbers "179" and "180". The scope also has the painted red "W" (waterproof) and a blue "B" (bloomed to enhance light transmission) . All of the serial numbers on the rifle and telescopic sight match and the sight is original to this rifle. The scope is complete with the original russet leather lens covers with "Broad Arrow" property mark. The scope case is the scarce No. 8 canvas case and is stenciled with the correct numbers for the rifle and scope. The rifle is complete with a wooden transit case painted olive green. The original paper equipment list/instruction sheet is present on the underside of the lid. The left side of the case is stenciled: "CHEST S.A. NO 15 MK I". The original carbord inspection tag is still attached the end of the case with the rifles serial number marked on it.

The No.4 MK1(T) Sniper Rifle is generally considered to be the most accurate and rugged sniper rifle issued during WWII; these rifles remained in British service until the 1970s.

Condition: Excellent, appears to have been not issued. The rifle and telescopic sight retain 97% plus of the original black phosphate finish. The telescopic sight optics are very good and both the windage and elevation knobs have not been turned as I have been told not to tuirn these until they have been dabed with some release oil. The bore is bright. All of the markings on the rifle and scope are sharp. The stock and forearm are in very fine-excellent with only light handling and storage wear. The lens covers are in near-new condition. The scope case is in near mint contidion with sharp stenciled markings. The transit case is in good overall condition and has all of the correct markings and components. This is an excellent example of a very desirable, completely matching British No.4 MK1(T) Sniper Rifle with transit case, scope can and lens covers.
There is no sling with is gun but must have come with the 1907 leather sling as I found one of the leather keepers in the bottom of the case.

This is likely the best No. 4 MK 1 (T) sniper rifle offered to the public in a long time in Canada as most of these are traded within the Sniper Collectors. I am offering all CGN members a chance at owning this piece of history.

Price is $6000.00 plus shipping and insurance. Shipping for this kit will not be cheap because of the size and weight. Delivery can be arranged by contacting me as I live in Southern Ontario and travel to East Coast on ocasion.
I have included a number of photos but if more are require for interested buyers please contact me with your e-mail address.

Information

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[Lance]

Wood stampings look legit, price is a bit steep.

[No4Mk1(T)]

Wood stampings look legit, price is a bit steep.

Well if anyone would know it's you Lance. How common is it to see the serial numbers on the forearm with the circle from the end of the punch around them? They also look to be upside down to what I usually see as well. Any comment on how common it is to see the widely spaced S51 marking?*As for price it's atleast $1000.00 to $1500.00 above the going rate here in Canada at the moment.

[spinecracker]

The rifle and scope "look" to be in very good condition - I just wonder how the foresight protector and amagazine got mislaid.

[Badger]

Before I'd spend $6,000, I'd like to see a few more pics of this area where the serial number of the scope is stamped. Obviously the scope matches it's canvas scope bag and that in-turn matches the rifle serial number, which is a good thing, but the wood stamping in the pic below seems to show a very FLAT area.

It might just be the camera lighting, but at that price, I'd want to make sure it wasn't sanded and stamped over a previous number.

Just my opinion and remember, I'm a K98k collector ...

It does look clean other than that, but as mentioned before, there's a bunch of experts on here who would know far better than me.

Regards,
Badger

[NavyShooter]

Badger,

It sure does look sanded to me as well.

I'm not the expert that some others here are, but here's what mine looks like in the same area:



The wrist area also looks like it's been sanded?

Here's mine:



Here's his:



Some stuff there just doesn't look quite....right.

Interestingly, my rifle is S/N X33021, his is X33257, so the S/N range matches, but his scope number is 24515, mine is 23631.

He has an earlier production rifle, with a later production scope?

I'm wondering if we have a #4(T) action that's dressed in someone else's wood.

NS

[RobSmith]

Could this "evidence of sanding" actually be evidence of wear ? Looks to me like this is the area where a shooter would usually hold the rifle.

[enfield303t]

I agree it looks good but the price is way to high and one would have to really want that particular rifle to pay $6,000.00. I saw one sell recently in as good shape for less than $4,000.00 but it didn't have the canvas scope case which stilll won't justify the price.

[rayg]

There was an all matching one on auction recently that looked to be in as nice a condition with a matching scope MkI metal can but no Transit chest and it went for $4300. I think if you add a matching transit chest and a scarcer canvas canvas MkII scope case like the one currently has for sale it might bring the value closer to $5,000 or maybe a bit more being it's a complete all matching kit with an excellent condt rifle you think?.
I just paid $3850 for an all matching one which included a matching MkI scope case and matching transit case and an extra canvas scope case but the difference is my rifle is not in the minty condition like these rifles are.
The condition of those rifles would bring a premium price.

What are transit chests and the canvas cases on the loose selling for now days? Ray.

Here's one that auction just ended, all matching. Rifle and scope only, for $3500.
The wrist looks similar to the one on the CGN sales.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...2102&oh=216543

[MJ1]

There is just something about the wrist numbers. But I have seen the wrist flat filed and struck on a few rifles so it might be OK. I'm just used to more uniform striking on a more rounded surface. Front sight cover can be missing for any number of reasons.