Enfield Made MkII’s?

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, yes, got it BP. It's ME misinterpreting YOUR figures. Yes, point taken!

[peregrinvs]

From the database I've counted 136 Monotype Mk2s and 160 Enfield DDs, obviously there will be many moe out there but on average it appears there are more DD guns left in existence.

Obviously that means that Monotype produced 23,000 more Mk2s than Enfield produced of the Mk1 DD, and with 26,000 Mk1 DDs lost, and no other major British losses after this, the Enfield DD statistically should be the rarer gun.

Thanks for that. Interesting. In comparison, how many Inglis MkII's do you have logged?

[Brit plumber]

542 Inglis Mk2
240 Lithgows
241 Inglis Mk1
50 Enfield Mk3

[ZGB]

Now that the greek batch has virtually all gone the ratio of monotype to inglis mk2 guns was very poor.Still there were some very early examples seen as well as very late ones.It seemed to be harder to find correct monotype barrels with out the locating piece on the underside to put on monotype bodies for customers.They just seemed to be a pig to find in that batch.

[peregrinvs]

Now that the greek batch has virtually all gone the ratio of monotype to inglis mk2 guns was very poor.Still there were some very early examples seen as well as very late ones.It seemed to be harder to find correct monotype barrels with out the locating piece on the underside to put on monotype bodies for customers.They just seemed to be a pig to find in that batch.

I saw two Monotype MkII's at Beltring in July: both had early 'D' for Daimler marked receivers and correct spec butt-slides and bipods. Only one had the correct British spec barrel - which was the one I bought. The other had a Canadian or Australian Mk2 barrel with the locating lug slot.

I was also looking for a MkII at Beltring last year and ended up with a correct spec Inglis example. I have a vague recollection there was one 'D' receiver British MkII on the 'Sentimental Journey' stall, but the price was rather high.

Has anyone any theories on why rather more Inglis MkII's seem to have survived than Monotype MkII's?

Cheers,

Mark

[Peter Laidler]

Barrels first. Couldn't someone who simply wants a Daimler the 'looks right' simply machine the locating lug off an Inglis and be done with it?

My theory for the 'shortage' of Daimler Mk2's is that at the end of the war, it was Canada who virtually serviced the rest of the world with Brens. You canm still see on some of the old chests (even UK Mil chests occasionally) the words 'supplied by the Canadian Government to the Netherlands/Belgium/ etc etc Government under the mutual aid plan' It's these guns that seemed to get scattered around and are now surfacing. While the British made stocks remained prety well within the British military.

As I said, while we had old service .303" guns prior to the L4's, most of them (but not all by any means) were Daimler Mk2's. The DP's were generally obsolete Mk1's. That's only my opinion but while there might be fewer Daimlers, I wouldn't call them 'rare' by any stretch of the imagination

[Brit plumber]

Has anyone any theories on why rather more Inglis MkII's seem to have survived than Monotype MkII's?

Cheers,

Mark

Inglis made approx 90,000 Mk2s and Daimler/Monotype 73,000 so theres a difference straight away in the total produced.

[Kev G]

The figures of lost Bren guns after the fall of France, taken from the War Office returns for the defence of the UK in August 1940 were that there were only 2,300 available to the Army.

Peter (or anyone) in what context does 'available to the Army' mean ?
2,300 Brens ready to be issued ? Stocks held by the army in the UK / or all locations ? or another meaning ?

ATB Kevin

[tankhunter]

Just to complicate things further! (But Genuine information)
A good Friend of mine who is also a sec.5 dealer called Mike Priest. Is responsible for the procurement & Deactivating of MANY Hunderends of Brens (As well as a LOT of other Weapons) Mike used to travel on a regular basis to a company that has huge storage capacity. he used to buy between 45-50 guns at a time. They were nearly all made up from componant parts! IE: 'I want fifty Brens, so, Fifty Butts, fifty Butt plates, Fifty of this, fifty of that Etc, Etc. Enough componant parts to make fifty Brens up at a time. So if you have a Bren that has Mike's Name on the Deact Cert. It is a GOOD BET that this is one that he has compiled from spare parts. NOT All new parts either! This was done to satisfy the market demand for this type of weapon. Simply because there were none available ANYWHERE else in the UK! It was not done to decieve, simply to construct Brens for sale to any customer who wanted one. Supply & demand if you like. A HELL of a lot of work. but that's Mike all over. He will do his best to procure anything interesting or what will sell. He is finding it VERY difficult at present to source pretty much anything at all for sale! I believe he has had a batch of Yugo M53's in & done. But that is just about all. He had two brens in, I waited three days before making a decision to buy one. When I phoned him. Yep, you gussed it, they were both sold! He who hesitates! There are NO Brens live left in the UK in any quantity for sale. ALL sources have been exhausted & cut & sold. This is why (From one of my previous posts) the price of Brens & deacts in general is rising fast! Demand outstripping supply!

[Brit plumber]

Its like the Indian Brens available in large quantaties about 4 years back, all disapeard into collections or sat on vehicles. I've been after one for ages!

ATB, Chris.