Questions About My No.4 Mk1 (T) Sniper Rifle

[Shootingmaster]

Would the scope pads have been added at Holland & Holland or at a later date? I don't know much about these. Is the 5 infront too high of a number or what.

[Peter Laidler]

If the first number on the bracket was 3, then it would have come from a BSA T. Waht is the 'Ive been staked mark' JM? And another thing shootingmaster, a wise old man called John Sookey told me once '.............. only buy the rifle and NEVER buy the story'

I have learned since the little book was published that although the spec sheet implied that the rifles for conversion to T spec should be 'as produced' (as the No4Trials I suppose), many were converted and passed with the solid block band foresight so don't fret unduly about that

[Shootingmaster]

Thanks for the tidbit about the foresight. That makes me feel a lot better about my rifle. After reading your book I was wondering what I had. Sometimes it seems that the more I learn the more confused I get. I like my rifle and have shot it on several occasions.
My grandfather used to tell me believe nothing what you hear and half of what you see.

[Peter Laidler]

Cutting to the quick Shooting master, your rifle is a bog standard, run of the mill, everyday No4T. It left H&H without a telescope. We know this because the butt isn't marked with the telescope number. The chest is really irrelevant because they weren't fitted into chests at H&H, that was done at Weedon where they all went.

At the end of the war, on the termination of contract, H&H were required to complete the contracts as best they could with the material in hand. In other words, they could not charge anything else to the Ministry of Supply who issued the contract on behalf of the War Office. So incomplete rifles, like yours and even half completed stock were returned, as-is! The rifle is put into a chest at Weedon and marked 'less telescope' because it hasn't got one. When Weedon closed in 1959 or so and the Small Arms were sent to Bicester, someone there fitted a telescope from a scrap rifle 52222 or whatever it was.

As I said, they are my thoughts is this rifle/chest was waiting next to my bench to be inspected and repaired. The first thing I'd note was the telescope number that was all akimbo and get that sorted out. Test it on the 28 foot collimation chart, bore sight and get the paperwork numbers corrected

[Shootingmaster]

Mr Laidler thanks for the info on Weedon & Bicester. I will try the collimation chart with bore sighting and see what I come up with.

[jmoore]

if the first number on the bracket was 3, then it would have come from a bsa t. Waht is the 'ive been staked mark' jm?

...........

"x"

[Badger]

Also 15 MK1 chest is stamped (T. Less Telescope) on the front. But tag on the end of the chest mentions the MKIII scope.

Check the MKL and read this article by Advisory Panel member Lance:

1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope)

The Transit Chest for "T.Less Telescope" as used when building and for storage of these partially completed snipers.

Regards,
Doug

[Beerhunter]

I fail to see what he might of done in WWII has anything to do with proof marks on my rifle. He was an avid gun collector and I have no idea when & where he acquired this piece.

I was merely pointing out that he didn't acquire the rifle in service, which may have been the implication of story that you were told.

[Roger Payne]

Two things strike me strange, not a lot, but here goes:
Odd that a rifle that was w/o telescope until it was being sold off would have had the scope pad screws properly staked, including the "I've been Staked" mark.
Also odd is the "52225" number on the bracket. No prefix and first number "5"?
Little things, but interesting.

One will never be able to prove it one way or the other, but I'd lay odds that the '5' at the start of the rifle serial number on the bracket is as a result of someone's misreading of the serial number to go on, & should be a '3', making the original rifle (also) a BSA 1944.

ATB

[rayg]

I was under the impression that after all sniper modifications were made at H&H including a "telescope" fitted and sighted in, the rifle then received the final stamp of Enfield inspector Harry Hardwick, (“D6E”) on the left flat of the receiver behind the bolt as the above rifle has. I guess apparently this was not the case and rifles received the final D6E proof w/o a scope having been installed.
Seems a bit unusual as the proper fitting of the bracket and the scope and sighting testing seems like a major part of the final acceptence/proofing for a sniper, Ray