Any thoughts on No1 Mk3 harmonics?

[breakeyp]

If you go back to the gun magazines/Gun Digest of a few years ago there will be articles on how great and what a wonderful new invention was the threaded weight on the muzzle end of Winchester/Browing rifles. Superior accuracy was achieved by "tuning" the barrel vibrations by screwing the weight (damper) in or out to achieve tremendous accuracy. The circumference had numbers so you could do trial and error to get the number for a particular load. A wonderful thing to tinker with and all the experts wanted one----they don't seem to be offered any more. I never saw the article telling us why this went to the great dustbin in the sky. Like saboted .22 bullets in .30 cases, this will come back into vogue in another 20 years or so. Wonderful but impracticle ideas are great and never go away.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Ah, the MAG-58!

It is quite satisfying to make one "sing". Not so soothing is the near spilling of a hard-earned coffee on the range, when assailed by a sound like canvas being torn very loudly.

Some folk seem to equate "fast" with "good" and crank the regulator all the way from "economy" to FUN!"

The thought of washed-out throats, hammered belville washers and loose rivets is disconcerting.

[Son]

Ah, the MAG-58!

It is quite satisfying to make one "sing". Not so soothing is the near spilling of a hard-earned coffee on the range, when assailed by a sound like canvas being torn very loudly.

Some folk seem to equate "fast" with "good" and crank the regulator all the way from "economy" to FUN!"

The thought of washed-out throats, hammered belville washers and loose rivets is disconcerting.

Hehehe....our best one yet... 23 loose and four missing rivets! It must have sounded like a cutlery drawer being shaken!
Mind you, have seen a 20 shot group in seven inches at 200 too! Incredible weapon!

[Peter Laidler]

What an absolutely magic bit of kit though............ We've got some BL65 A (Belgium, Liege 1965 guns) serial nubers here, still in regular use by the sustained fire (SF) courses. What a treat to hear them going after an introduction to SF with a sooooooooooo slow firing Vickers MMG

Talking of the belville washers, I see that there is now a hydraulic buffered back plate in the US. Quite how a hydraulic buffer will actually work as a 'hydraulic' buffer in the true sense of the work in a GPMG is a bit of a mystery so far. We'll see..........

[Brian Dick]

Ah, memories of cracked side plates and loose rivets on L7's. Thanks God for Ohio Ordnance. I got the balancing lesson a few years ago. Unfortunately, the previous owners of the gun were running it wide open and it had all the damage as proof.

[RJW NZ]

Not to harp on a point, but just being hopeful before this thread passes onwards, does anyone know the nodes for a stock no1mk3 barrel, or if not a way that could figure it out? thanks r

[Peter Laidler]

We harp back a bit again RJW.......... I all depends on sooooooooooo many variables such as barrel steel and....... and.........

[Son]

RJW, what are you setting out to do... Are you looking to extract the best accuracy?
As far as achieving accuracy from a standard barrel goes, the standard bedding covered all bets by having the foreend provide upward pressure on the barrel. The barrel centreing stud then gave a little extra weight from it's spring, and the inner band held the barrel down if the foreend began to warp. These saved the rifle from loosing too much accuracy from a change in climate (and needing attention from an armourer to fix it)

The art of bedding isn't really about controlling the barrel as much as ensuring every shot makes the barrel react the same way. So what you need to do is get it so it shoots the same POI when cold, through the warm -up shots and when warm. From there, find the load that gives the best accuracy from your particular rifle, and seek to accurately reproduce that load every time. For example, to give my rifles the best possible chance, I check all projectile weights, and weigh every load. The whole thing is about reducing the variables that you can... Some rifles never achieve better than ordinary results no matter what you do.

[Tertle]

I'm sitting here playing with the insides of my Fultons no1mk3 and wondering if the three internal springs are situated exactly on nodal points, or not ...
So I've been looking all over for a diagram of the harmonic vibration points of nodes/antinodes for the stock smle barrel but to no avail.
I have the James Sweets diagram of the H barrel nodes and measurements but there's no notation how close that is to the stock barrel.

Roger, this has been a rather odd week for coincidences indeed, but i will try and send you an email or if i can find the negatives, to be honest im not sure if it will help of only frustrate you further, but best i explain.

My grandfather won many trophies and shooting competitions on the coast, and in lean years in fact he basically kept his family feed through bad times, but one of my proudest family memorabilia is a photo of my dad as a small boy sitting under a table with the trophies above and holding Granddads comp rifle, a No1 poss a mkIII however what is interesting are the extra black bands that one can just make out along the barrell.

I asked dad what were they for, to which he replied bedding points, im wondering if he was experimenting internal springs on the nodal points as well, but like i said i will see if i can get the original set of negatives and have them worked. it may be nothing or it might be of something of interest to you.


cheers

Mark

[RJW NZ]

Thanks guys, those comments do help.

I only asked the question because of that image in Sweets book showing the nodes of the H barrel, so I assumed it was a simple matter and that info would be a common thing. With so many variables having an effect on the harmonics I wonder if there was there ever debate that the effect of harmonics was of limited relevance to accuracy?

Hi Mark, regarding those black bands, I've been reading in some publications that sometimes 'back in the day' the front handguard had black insulation tape wrapped tightly around it and the forend as a stiffening measure, and another mention was of inner tube rubber being stretched tightly over that same area, halfway along the front handguard, another was metal bands that were held closed with bolts and nuts, I wonder if thats the black bands that you're seeing?
Thats a great photo to have , I hope you've saved copies for posterity, sounds like you need to re create one of those pics with your own rifle.