Ithaca Model 37 help needed.

[StillLearning]

Tom Doniphon And fredh46, I have been researching all of the US combat shotguns, primarily the trench shotguns from WW1 and WW2 for over 3 years now. All the information that I have and have seen (Complete Guide to United States Military Combat Shotguns - Bruce Canfield & The Worlds Fighting Shotguns - Thomas F. Swarengen being the largest information sources), there seems to be a lot of information that is missing. In reference to the 1943 serial number, I think what you will find is that NO PARTS (receivers, barrels, ect.) were produced but there were still preexisting part left to put together M-37's till production started up again. I am sure this is the case because I have seen this before, including a Lee Enfield No.5 Mk.1 that was marked 12/47 even though production was halted in 6/47, there were part that made it possible to put together No.5's till 12/47.

As for the comment of "no "civilian" shotguns were produced by Ithaca during the war", Winchester, Remington, Stevens, and Ithica never produced a dedicated "military" shotgun, they were all built on civilian produced shotguns. They only major change was a heavier barrel that had thicker walls and of course, the fact that before being issued they were stamped and given martial markings. If you are wondering if it is a Trench gun versus a riot gun, I seem to recall that the Riot guns didn't receive the heavier barrels. The trench guns had the heavier barrels and had both ordnance stamps as well as trans versing slots cut under the barrel. Unfortunately, my copy of Canfields book is with a friend right now, but I do remember the approximate number of m-37 trench shotguns is between 1600-1700. 1678 comes to mind.

[tsmgguy]

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[scosgt]

Yes, that's my understanding. The Ithaca Military contract shotgun shipments ended around the end of 1942 at about serial no. 62,000. If Ithaca made no more shotguns during the War (1943, 1944 & 1945), then how can there be 1943 guns with higher serial numbers than 62,000?

Actually, the skeet and trap grade guns were numbered in the 80,000 range and there were a few that were military marked from 1942-43. I had one, it was marked FJA rather than RLB, indicating a little bit later manufacture than the trench guns, which are assumed to be the end of WWII Ithaca shotgun production. There were no 1943 civilian guns. Whenever 63001-69999 were made, it was after WWII and they were not sold to the military. WWII guns are NOT "US" marked, except for a small group of riot guns that do not fall into that range, and that we think were probably cut down from long barrels by a US arsenal, hence the US marks rather than the RLB.
Hope this helps.

[Tom Doniphon]

Yes, there were Ithaca sporting guns in a higher serial number range.

Scosgt, was your long barreled FJA marked gun in the WW2 Ithaca shipping records? My recollection is that the shipping records stop at the end of 1942.

[scosgt]

Yes, there were Ithaca sporting guns in a higher serial number range.

Scosgt, was your long barreled FJA marked gun in the WW2 Ithaca shipping records? My recollection is that the shipping records stop at the end of 1942.

Interestingly, the number BEFORE and the number AFTER appear in the records. I bought that gun from a dealer in the Ithaca NY area, and he stated, without documentation, that it came from the estate of a former President of Ithaca Arms. Which is actually consistent. It may have never been delivered to Uncle Sam, but the markings were totally legit, and the gun was brand new.

I do think that the records reflect some miscellaneous sales after the trenchguns. But it is common knowledge that the shotgun production line was converted to .45 auto at the end of the trench production, so 1943 61000 serial guns are rather unlikely. I don't remember when FJA took over from RLB, but it was pretty early in the war, probably 1942. Only some early Remington 1903's are marked RLB, all the 03A3 guns are FJA. The Ithaca .45s are FJA also.

[Tom Doniphon]

FJA took over from RLB in about June of 1942.