Found Possible WW1& WW2 USMC Sniper s

[Lt1]

Found these rifle at a small 150 table gun show the past weekend

A Springfield 1903 serial 460890 barrel date 4-11 JFC cartouche FG stock .with 1890s style P proof . Blued finish .Wood is minty Winchester A5 with mount at rear of sight base . No leaf sight . WW1 handguard with notch for the winchester mount screw . Searching the web I found this archive for a WW1 sniper I belive this found rifle is one like the link . The seller is unsure what to ask since he is selling off an estate . Anyone have any idea what to pay for the rifle ? based on a 95% NRA rating system ? I have the rifle on hold untill this coming weekend .

There is an additional rifle springfield 1903A1 serial 348673 with a punch in front of the serial . H-hole & Unertl mounts with Lyman 5a scope .. Vice marks on the barrel dated 1942 . I it possible for anyone to do a search on the 2 serial numbers . Thank You in advance . VOwens

Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record,

Information

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[Jim Tarleton]

The 1st rifle, 460890, falls just outside the group of rifles built by Winchester for (I believe) the Marines for Vera Cruz. If it is part of that group of rifles, its serial number got left off the list.

The 2nd rifle, 348673, falls kinda in the middle of nowhere, and is the second oldest A5 mounted 03 I have heard of, but are you sure those are Unertl mounts (should be Winchester #2 mounts)? If so, it as not a Marine sniper rifle.

Are they sniper rifles? Don't know - haven't seen them yet. Could they be sniper rifles? Yep, or could have been used a door stops. We don't know. The 5th and 6th Regiments did carry over 200 scoped rifles to France. Many never came back. Is there a record of those rifles? I hope so, but we haven't found it yet.

Jim

[m1903rifle]

Although "close only counts in horse shoes", I do note #348,694 being with the USMC in 1931 and nos. 461,156 and 462,658 being in the hands of the USMC in 1938. No notation in the SRS data however, as to whether these were anything other than standard M1903's.

[Emri]

Hey Jim,

Did you look at the link provided of a rifle at SA ?? The rear scope base looks out of place to me.





FWIW,

Emri

[OrderlySgt]

I think you can find photos of similar mountings in Col. Brophy's book. Pages 504 and 505.

[JGaynor]

Two versions of this rifle. One had the rear scope mount on the rear sight base. (The mounts were spaced 6" apart.) The second had the rear mount on the receiver ring (the mounts were 7.2" apart.

Regards,
Jim

[vintage hunter]

Appearently there was at least 3 versions, was just looking at a picture of a 1903/Winchester A5 thats supposedly in the Springfield Armoury collection that has the rear block on the reciever bridge and the front block on the barrel just ahead of the rear sight. Sight still has adjustable base attached. This arrangement would give a mount spacing around 9.3'' according to my guesstimations. The picture is in Martin Pegler's book Sniper, A History of the US Marksman if anybody wants to have a look. -VH

[HD-Ghost]

The first rifle serial number 460890 was built in 1911, so the barrel matches. This is also the era in which the scope mounted rifles were first produced. The front and rear scope blocks were mounted initially on the barrel with a 6" difference between centers. Later samples have the rear base on the receiver ring 7.2" from the center of the front block.
The second # 348673 was originally built in 1908. So it would be a WWII rebuild if correct.
Would have to see pics to help determine, and it would only be an educated guess.
To put a value on them w/o handling them or documentation, they would be worth the sum of the parts.
Lucky you,
Ron
PS. If you decide to pass on the first one, let me know.

[JGaynor]

Attachment 29826

Appearently there was at least 3 versions, was just looking at a picture of a 1903/Winchester A5 thats supposedly in the Springfield Armoury collection that has the rear block on the reciever bridge and the front block on the barrel just ahead of the rear sight. Sight still has adjustable base attached. This arrangement would give a mount spacing around 9.3'' according to my guesstimations. The picture is in Martin Pegler's book Sniper, A History of the US Marksman if anybody wants to have a look. -VH

Is this the rifle? It's from the online Springfield Arsenal site. The scope is a Stevens. Probably just experimental.

regards,
Jim

[Jim Tarleton]

I believe that SN 460890 was part of the group of 1914 rifles with scopes mounted by Winchester. Vern sent me some pictures of it, and it has every characteristic of the known set of rifles. Does anyone have the SRS paperwork for these rifles? I would love to see the papers. I originally thought there were 14 rifles in the set, but it is now obvious there were more.

jt