SMLE found by an author researching the fighting and retreat to Dunkirk

[Brian Dick]

Regarding the origins of the Sht. Mk.1. I think some want to make the explanation much more difficult than it is. I stick to my original opinion. It's a second line rifle that was issued to rear echelon troops and disposed of before the withdrawal at Dunkirk. Those folks who've never experienced the supply system in any Army just don't understand that with limited resources, especially during peacetime, the militaries of the world generally don't throw away anything that's still useful or in the case of rifles, gauge up correctly and still shoot! The USA was probably the biggest offender in throwing away perfectly good equipment because the supply of new stuff was/is fairly endless. Of course, my friends working at Anniston will tell you that it's not quite that way anymore with over 10 years of war in various deserts wrecking all of the pertinent equipment and an unfriendly government more willing to give money to everything but the military. However, when I was in an arms room working in the 1980's, we still had 81mm mortars that I couldn't help but wonder were in new condition during WWII! The tubes were so thin it was amazing and they still worked fine. Almost all of our weapons were left over from the Vietnam War with just the start of an infusion of new stuff like the M249 SAW which still had many bugs to iron out and 60mm Airborne mortars which were things of beauty and perfection. My point is: forget the list of changes and all that's been written in books by various authors. Reality is that weapons that were serviceable were issued and used even if the books say they weren't.

[arkshooter]

I appeared to me that the bolt is gone. That would lend credence to Dunkirk, and not wanting the Germans to have access to an operating SMLE.

[Homer]

Was there an effort to destroy any of the equipment left behind.

[newcastle]

Soldiers would remove the bolt and take it with them or throw it away, the magazine too thus rendering the weapon useless to the enemy.

[Roger Payne]

Hi Beerhunter,
Yes, I know the fellow. Have been see him two or three times. Can't remember his name now (George???), but his museum (on the patio/garden of his house) & inside it, is, IIRC in the village of Askifou (not sure if I've spelt it correctly but I've spelt it phonetically). It's on the road that leads to Sfakia off the main arterial highway that runs across the North of the island - I think somewhere a little to the West of Rethymnon. It's signed & off to the left (or it is if it still exists; he was ancient the last time I called about 8 years ago) as you drive into the village. I seem to recall he had a substantial part of a Stuka cockpit on his patio, many smallarms including SMLE's, Brens, Carcano's etc., a fallschirmjager helmet complete with bullet hole etc etc. Chaotic, but well worth a visit!

ATB

[Surpmil]

Kids, playing Surpmil? Obviously a jestful comment........ It's a ring of oily stuff around the butt. The butt marking disc has recent fallen out as can be seen by the dust free recess and verdegres, caused by the screw just falling out of the dry-rotten wood. It just looks to me that the change lever/safety screw has been removed to further disable the rifle by throwing the safety mechanism away. Obviously done at the same time

Can't answer the sheared off screw but it's recent. The rifle is what it is and been where it's been

Kids, playing Surpmil? Obviously a jestful comment........ It's a ring of oily stuff around the butt. The butt marking disc has recent fallen out as can be seen by the dust free recess and verdegres, caused by the screw just falling out of the dry-rotten wood. It just looks to me that the change lever/safety screw has been removed to further disable the rifle by throwing the safety mechanism away. Obviously done at the same time

Can't answer the sheared off screw but it's recent. The rifle is what it is and been where it's been

No jest Peter, that's just how the photos look to me. I suppose a soldier could remove the safety screw with a coin as the slot is wide enough, but if done to disable the rifle, why bother to put the screw back? Would make more sense just to hide or throw it away with the lever and spring.

Looks like there's a large chunk missing out of the wrist of the butt and from here it looks like there was tape holding it on until fairly recently.

But you can see it better than I can.

[COASTIE FT]

"..it was nothing more than a harmless souvenir. Alas, this isn't how the Police here see things.."
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I'd be more afraid of someone with half a brain that can simply go to a hardware store and purchase all the items necessary to manufacture a functional (albeit extremely crude) firearm. It may not be pretty but it will get the evil deed done. Just my 2¢.

[peregrinvs]

Relic guns (such as the one discussed here) are somewhat of a grey area under UK law as they may - or may not - still legally be firearms. 'Incapable of firing' is not the same thing as legally deactivated. A deactivated firearm is formally defined as one that 'has been rendered incapable of discharging any shot, bullet or other weapon and has consequently ceased to be a firearm within the meaning of the (Firearms) Act'. If a relic gun hasn't been formally certified as deactivated by a Proof House, then the owner runs the risk of prosecution and having to establish in court whether or not the gun has ceased to be a firearm.

I assume in this case the individual who imported it from France was threatened with prosecution by the Police and decided not to take his chances in court.