Restoring beater M1s

[E.Hall 43 m1]

You know thats one of the main reasons I bought a new stock. I was too afraid to buy any old thing and the price for a "real" stock was too much of an investment to feel confortable with. what if its a just another repo.

[browningautorifle]

I thought we were better than that - you tell me.

Fakes are fakes. Whatever the reason it was done. Like Bob says, with the next sale it becomes original.

[Mark in Rochester]

So what would happen to the forgers say if you had a set of original stamps.

Offered to stamp for free with a brand burnt into the back end of the stock.

Not going to happen but I think it would discourage the forgers

[Joe W]

So what would happen to the forgers say if you had a set of original stamps.

Offered to stamp for free with a brand burnt into the back end of the stock.

Not going to happen but I think it would discourage the forgers

Mark, I think the problem would still exist. Some of the fake stamps are very good and it takes a real expert to identify them. There would still be those that "wish to deceive" and they would not want a stock that was marked as a fake. They would still go to the forgers. As Bob said, the bigest problem is going to be down the road, after the stock is out of the hands of the person that had it stamped in the first place. Even if the past owner is honest and had good intentions, at some point a future owner is either going to conveniently forget he knew the stock had a fake stamp, or may in fact not know, and he himself was duped. Either way, the stock gets passed off as being original. No good is going to come out of this. The problem is ours, the collecting fraternity.
There is now another group of people, other than "collectors", buying the M1 rifle that do not see things quite the way we do. These are people that just want to own, maybe only one M1 rifle, as a a representive piece of WW2 or Korean War memorabilia. They may only be interested in having the rifle "appear" as it did when first isued. They may not care one bit as to "originality" and surely will not spend the money for a stock with the original cartouche and will be just as happy or more so, with the fake cartouche. This of course adds to "our problem", but means nothing to them. I don't really see an answer other than to make yourself as knowledgeable as you can or ask for help BEFORE making a purchase. There are many knowledgable people in the GCA willing to help.

[gsimmons]

I really don't the problem with the James River Armoury stocks. They are repro stocks and they are marked as such. If you buy one as an original shame on you for not looking or knowing the difference. They look like new stocks and they serve a purpose with re-enactors and people who don't want to damage an increasingly valuable original stock.

[Joe W]

I really don't the problem with the James River Armoury stocks. They are repro stocks and they are marked as such. If you buy one as an original shame on you for not looking or knowing the difference. They look like new stocks and they serve a purpose with re-enactors and people who don't want to damage an increasingly valuable original stock.

I think most would agree with you and have indicated that in previous posts to this thread.

"It is good to hear that James River does stamp there stocks in a way that the cartouches are identified as fakes. Most stocks that have fake cartouches are not so marked." ( Joe W )

"I'm happy to hear that your outfit brands their stocks, that's a good thing." (Bob Seijas)"

[Remo]

My last post on the topic, we will have to agree to disagree - I have one goal- teach young men how to shoot MILSURP Rifles safely, correctly, and not worry how many rounds they put through them, and inform members here is a good, honest gunsmith that does great work. I know some of you are looking at it strictly from a collector view- money making view and thinking fraud - but I'm not here selling anything. I think both types can exist together in this forum. There are unscrupulous people at every gun show I attend selling put together rifles of all types as "untouched" all "original" "War Bring home by Grandpa" with a Criterion barrel on it, so I understand your angst. Unfortunately where there is money to be had, there will be fraud and "Deceit" neither you or I will ever to be able to fully stop but we can advise and learn on this forum. That's why I support this forum. Thanks for your viewpoint
. Remo

[ltcboy]

What turns me off about the whole restamp issue is the fact that real legit stocks, with real and legit cartouches, are actually being under minded and their legitimacy compromised because of this issue. The value of a bonafide stock cartouche is now questioned. The guy on the internet advertising his restamp service**sis a prime example of this.


Mike

[TMB]

I think the bad thing is refinishing restamping original stocks. If you want it to look new get repro.I don't think repro stocks fool anyone. but a refinish original might take an expert to tell ?

[Joe W]

I think the bad thing is refinishing restamping original stocks. If you want it to look new get repro.I don't think repro stocks fool anyone. but a refinish original might take an expert to tell ?

I guess there are two schools of thought regarding "original" stocks. Some will look at it as embelishing or restoring the "original" stock. We already seem to accept restoring rifles such as gas traps with repro parts. Reason being is that original gas trap parts are either impossible to find or to costly. Not to far in the future the same will be said of some WW2 era stocks, especially GHS. Also when restoring any M1 Garand most tend to make it as close to original looking as possible. We look for not only correct parts but matching wear patterns. The finished product could also be considered as a "fake". Someplace down the road some unsuspecting buyer might think he is buying a "original" rifle as opposed to a "correct" rifle. There are restored rifles that also will fool all but an expert. I don't know what the answer to this problem really is and I tend to think there may not be an answer.