And now for something really different...

[Patrick Chadwick]

Attachment 38830 Attachment 38829



Attachment 38831

Can anyone tell me exactly which type it is? I have a suspicion, but do not wish to influence you all with my preconceived ideas.

Information

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[jmoore]

No clue!

[Patrick Chadwick]

Look at the bayonet lug, the band springs, and the trigger bow. And although you can't see it clearly, the butt has a cheek piece molding. The lock plate is flat, with bevelled edges, but behind the cock it is heavily convex.

[gsimmons]

Is it French?

[Patrick Chadwick]

French style, but not French made. But it is based on the 1777 AN IX.
That is why I listed the "unique selling points", which are slightly different on a French AN IX.
More info:
Lock plate 6 1/4! x 1 1/4"
Barrel length 41 1/4" (the muzzle may have been trimmed a bit)
Caliber now a tight .72, but the previous owner honed the barrel to remove rust, so it was probably originally a nominal .69 or .70.***

If anyone out there has "American Military Shoulder Arms, Volume II" by George D. Moller, please take a look - I do not have this book, but have received a tip that the answer may be in there somewhere.

***Correction: I doubt he honed it out that much. Maybe the original caliber was .71"

[gsimmons]

Of course! But my copy of Mollers books are in storage 680 miles away!

[jmoore]

The visual clues surely seem French/US, but the brass fittings, esp. the crazy front band/ramrod guide thingie aren't like anything I've seen. But if it's pre-1800 that's not a surprise. First suspicision would be Naval issue. Some early USMC musket? All wags at this point. No books handy for a few days.

[Patrick Chadwick]

OK, I think it's time for me to publish my guess. Which will have to do until someone digs out more books!
Based on information in "United States Martial Flintlocks" by Rober M. Reilly, plus comments from musketologists, I observe the following.

1) The long combined foresight/front band extending to middle band is, up to now, only know from Dutch muskets.
2) The bayonet stud on top of the barrel appears to be a specifically American feature.
3) Many early muskets (and presumably compents) in the pre-revolutionary America (not yet USA!) were of Dutch origin.

4) The following features match a Springfield Model 1816, of which there were 3 major types. Reilly points out that, together with the contract muskets, there is a wide variation is detail configuration, and there is no single "all correct" version. This was NOT modern standarized factory production!
a) Bayonet stud on top of barrel - all types.
b) Lockplate flat with bevelled edges at front, bulbous/convex behind the cock - all types.
c) Lower sling swivel in front arm of trigger bow - Type 2.
d) Detachable brass pan - all types.
e) Middle and rear band spring in front of bands. Front spring with stud - all types.

So that sounds like a Springfield Model 1816, Type 2 - apart from the front band construction

However, the butt, with a comb and molded cheek-piece recess is pure French, in fact 1777 AnIX. But the basic French design was taken up by many countries, so this does not provide a clear origin, merely an earliest date of roughly 1801.

My present guess is:
A Springfield 1816 contract musket made up using Dutch parts, maybe recycled from an earlier musket.

I would be grateful for comments from anyone with better information, and above all - pictures!

[gsimmons]

Does it have any proof marks? I know Belgium made arms for just about everybody. Have you handled the musket, or just these three piccies?

[Patrick Chadwick]

Have you handled the musket, or just these three piccies?

Don't worry, I have handled it. In fact I have dismantled it and gone over every piece with an eyeglass. All I can find in the way of markings are:

A clearly stamped "BWS 39" on the back end of the barrel, about 1" from the tang.

A dubious TT high on the lockplate, between the cock and the back of the pan (only visible when the lock is cocked) in the position where many US muskets are stamped "US".

A "2" inside the lockplate.

And that is it!