mystery - No. 4 Mk. I

[Peter Laidler]

The Mk2 or ll on the backsight leaf indicates that the LEAF is the Mk2 type, as in 'LEAF, Backsight Mk2' but the actual sight as a whole is a BACKSIGHT, Assembly, Mk3. Don't ask, just one of the vagaries of the UK Military VAOS nomenclature system. I started to explain this in the 'found some Enfield parts' thread.

With regards to the stores system, most Soldiers didn't worry toooo much about all the nomenclature crap. Their sole aim in life was to bamboozle the storemen (or blanket stackers as they were irreverently known....) and con them out of or just plain thieve as much as they could - by fair means or foul

[Beerhunter]

It's marked as a No. 4 Mk. I, but it has Mk. II sights.

No.4 Mk.1s can be found with any of the marks of sight. They were built with all marks and many have had the sights changed.

[Thunderbox]

Looks to me like a normal BSA thats been over-stamped with a new number - or one transferred from a scrapped Maltby - during an FTR.

[tlvaughn]

I'm speaking from memory now (which often fails me!), but so far as I can recall early (41/42 era) Maltby rifles never had the machined 'flat' on the receiver sidewall just behind the receiver ring. It is shown most clearly in your photo. Amongst UK production rifles it is found on both ROF Faz & BSA rifles, but NOT those from ROF Maltby.

Regarding the machined flat on the receiver sidewall, is this the area you are talking about?

OP's Picture
Attachment 39914

1941 ROFM:
Attachment 39916

1941 ROFM:
Attachment 39917

[Roger Payne]

That's right TLV. There is a variation in contour there on the Maltby, but it's very different to the definite & larger 'panel' on BSA rifles. Thanks for the photo's.

ATB

[Brian Dick]

Would the BSA receivers have all been machined like that in case of possible selection for conversion to No.4T?

[Roger Payne]

I think Peter is best likely to know the answer to that. I often wondered the same, but I think it's there from the outset, even before H&H took exclusively BSA made rifles. Also, it does not run forward right to the receiver ring - it stops just a short way in front. I suppose there could have been plans to set the pads a little further back & BSA could have tried to anticipate this (PL has mentioned that there was certainly an allowance for this, but I think that was just so that the screws for the rear pad did not compromise the hardening around the recess for the locking lug, & it was only a tiny amount anyway; I think he's mentioned 'the width of a hacksaw blade', IIRC!).

Just had a look in the rifle rack & it's present on both my 41 BSA T's. I note it's also on Savage rifles, at least, early ones. It might be on them all, but I only own three Savage rifles & they're all 41 or 42 mfr. They all have it.

ATB

[tlvaughn]

I note it's also on Savage rifles, at least, early ones. It might be on them all, but I only own three Savage rifles & they're all 41 or 42 mfr. They all have it.

I have several examples of Savage rifles from each year of production dating from early 1941 to late 1944 and they all have the larger flat panel.

While looking at the receiver wall of all my Enfields I came across one that you may find interesting:

1942 ROFM
Attachment 39968

[Roger Payne]

Well spotted TLV. Both of my Maltby rifles are 41 dated, (they are 4T's), as are the Savage rifles I have (one Mk1 & two Mk1* T's), & I don't tend to look in great detail at later production rifles other than BSA's & Long Branches. The photo you show is most interesting ---- is it typical of later rifles do you know? Your photo also shows another production change in the Maltby manufactured No4 rifles as time went on; specifically that the 'ledge' running along the length of the receiver just above the wood line has changed from being radiused (as on all of the 1941 rifles I've seen) to being machined at an angle. I knew previously that there was a change at some point, but couldn't have told you in what year exactly. I wonder if the 'panel' & the 'angled ledge' appeared together in 1942?? IIRC during wartime production BSA & Faz always retained the radiused ledge, as did Savage in North America. I think Long Branch also changed from a radiused to angled type as production went on. Not sure exactly when though.

ATB