M1 Garand Help

[rongee]

After coming to the firing position, on command the left hand comes off of the handguard and quickly slides down to the operating rod and works the action while the weapon is held by the firing hand in port arms.* The trick is,,,,,,,,,,getting everyone to cycle at the same time.* Seven rifles cycling at the same is awe inspiring, but,,,,,,,,,,it is hard to get everyone in time.

This maneuver is not particularly easy to perform, especially if it has not been thoroughly practiced and rehearsed with the honor guard. A previous poster stated that he used to manually cycle the op rod without difficulty along with 800 other guys. But doing it as a training exercise is one thing, doing it in sync with six other guys is another. I vote with the majority; render the rifles semi-auto.

[John Kepler]

I don't have any experince with 30-06 blanks.*
l

Trust me! It shows!

The "operative" numbers are: 1.760" length by 0.376" diameter versus 2.494" length by 0.470" diameter. The "operative" equation is A=(3.1416 X D) x H. The bigger the number, the harder your job cycling the action is going to be! Hint: A Garand isn't an AR!

If you still insist, then the only other comment is the same as given to Kamikazi pilots on their first/last flight, "Rotsa ruck!"

[deano41]

I went to sleep thinking about this last night. There are a lot of different factors involved here. Are the rifles held at port arms during firing? I would hope I was on the very right hand side of that formation. Holding an M1 Rifle at port arms, by the wrist of the stock would be awkward, instead of holding it with the left hand at the balance point as taught in the manual of arms. It would be interesting to see where the ejected shells land also, as an M1 Rifle doesn't alsways eject to the side. I think I would want to practice this excercise before deciding to reinvent the manual of arms for the M1 Rifle.

But what do I know, this is how I was taught at Fort Ord, 47 years ago!

Dean (the other one)

[rongee]

Holding an M1 Rifle at port arms, by the wrist of the stock would be awkward, instead of holding it with the left hand at the balance point as taught in the manual of arms.

What SGT. K is suggesting is that the drill team execute an inspection arms, only with a full rifle. A trainee would open the bolt for inspection by grasping the rifle at the wrist with the right hand and racking the slide with the left. However, the rifle is empty and therefore the bolt will lock back. If any member of the honor guard short strokes the op rod with rounds in the mag, the rifle will either re-chamber the spent brass or eject the brass without chambering a new round. Admittedly, when honor guards were formed from troops in the field, they cycled the rifle manually because they sure weren't going to hand out blank adapters. But these guys knew what they were doing.

This is how they "learned" me at Ft. Ord 50 years ago.

[deano41]

Well Ron, now you made me drag the Garand out of the safe and practice Inspect Arms. Rifle is brought to port arms, held with the left hand at the balance point. Right hand, palm up, grasps the operating rod handle with the little finger, and pulls the bolt back. Right hand then returns to grip the rifle at the wrist. This was the way we were taught in the Army (our side). Some things you just never forget!

Dean (the other one)

We were taught to pull the op rod handle with the right little finger to keep from taking skin off your right index finger joint on the windage knob. I know, I have the scars to prove that one!

[Maury Krupp]

Well Ron, now you made me drag the Garand out of the safe and practice Inspect Arms. Rifle is brought to port arms, held with the left hand at the balance point. Right hand, palm up, grasps the operating rod handle with the little finger, and pulls the bolt back. Right hand then returns to grip the rifle at the wrist. This was the way we were taught in the Army (our side). Some things you just never forget!

Dean (the other one)

We were taught to pull the op rod handle with the right little finger to keep from taking skin off your right index finger joint on the windage knob. I know, I have the scars to prove that one!

Well, with all due respect to your Drill Sergeants, if that's the way you were taught, you were taught wrong

From FM 22-5 29 Aug 58 (the version current in 1962):

44. Inspection Arms
a. The command is INSPECTION, ARMS. Inspection arms is a 4-count movement, and is executed only from the position of order arms.
b. The first two counts are the same as in going to port arms (1 and 2, fig. 17). On the third count, release your left hand from the balance and, with yourleft thumb on the operating rod handle and push it smartly to the rear until it is caught by the operating rod catch. At the same time, lower your head and eyes enough to look into the receiver (fig. 22). On the fourth count, having found the receiver empty or having emptied it, raise your head and eyes to the front and at the same time regrasp the rifle at the balance with your left hand.

Either way, manually cycling an M1 with precision desired from a drill team firing party will be no easy task. Doing it right will require a whole lot more practice than most are willing to invest. That's one of the reasons blank adapters were invented in the first place

Maury

[Bill Hollinger]

SGT K, I think you will find that manually operating the op-rod after a blank has been fired may not be as easy as you think if the case expands at all. But, if you pull the BFAs and replace them with the lock and screw and then fire the blank with no build up of pressure there may not be the expansion either. You can also have some light blanks loaded with regular 30-06 brass and a wax plug.

[deano41]

Maury, thank you for your polite, gentle correction! I won't argue with you or the FM. I did try it that way, and it does work. I guess I'm ready for "the home". SIGH

Dean (the other one)

[SGT K]

Oh boy, my very first post and I'm going against the experts. I tried to log on once this afternoon and couldn't - I figured you all had all ready kicked me off.

I am going to convert a few of these rifles and try them on the the Color Guard Officers first. If we can't perform the drill to our satisfaction I will not proceede to the rest of the team and I will put the BFAs back on. AND,,,,,,,,,,I will come back here and concede that you were all 100% correct. I've seen some full-time teams do this though, and I've just got to try.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I learned something from each opinion and I'm sure I'll have more simple questions.

Special thanks for the best wishes.
Rotsa Ruck
Paul