Info about this #4 MkI Sniper rifle.

[Peter Laidler]

The original telescope was a Houghton Btcher 3274. Not one that's passed me by but two VERY close relatives have. 3272 and 3280

[catman]

OK, Here's some more pic's. It has all the right things, except the scope does not match the gun. However, besides the battle scars in the wood work, it cleaned up fairly nice for its age.
The bore and chamber are like a mirror with clean rifling and the action is smooth as glass. It has some very small spots in the steel, but no serious pits. In some of the pic's, it looks like its pitted, but its actually small oil spots, that I didn't clean off perfectly, before I took the pic's. That does not mean the blue is perfect, it does have some fade and wear, but not much.
As for the Scope Tin, I don't know how that hinge got rusted, this thing has been stored in an air condition room for the past 40+ years and not been exposed to water, so I'm lost on that. I did clean most of it off, so its not so bad now.
As for selling it, I currently do not have a set price, as this is like an old collectable car and its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and advertisement is the best way to expose it, to potential interested buyers to make offers. At this time, I don't really want to jump into putting it in an official auction, but I am going to advertise it some and see what bites. Since the scope is not a match, it is not an added value asset, so I'll probably end up separating the package if necessary.
There are several collectors who seek these rare items out, so I'm interested in seeing how much interest there is.
As for the history, My Dad , (ex Military and gun collector and gunsmith) bought this, back in about 1970-72. From an elderly woman who's husband had died years before. He was an old war vet and she said, he brought it back from the war and couldn't part with it and never shot it. It stayed under their bed for many years until he died and then many years after he died. Dad never shot it and I never have either. Its been stored in our collection for all those years and I just brought it out. However, my trigger finger is itching.
Now, I have a question; Badger posted a link to G/B for me to look at. I studied it carefully and am curious about its serial # of 1424, I thought there was only 1403 of these made??
How does that work???? Am I wrong about the #'s ?? I'm still learning.
I also noticed it was missing part of the front strap/band and appears the stock was refinished.
Your feed back is greatly appreciated,
Thanks
Chuck

[jmoore]

Four clicks per revolution elevation adjustments on the rear sight?

she said, he brought it back from the war

You might as well forget that pat of the story. The markings near the muzzle, etc. make that hugely unlikely...

The scope adjusting tool doesn't go with that scope, but it is a nice addition to the early tin. (Might be the first trials rifle tin I've seen, BTW.)

[Alan de Enfield]

You might as well forget that pat of the story. The markings near the muzzle, etc. make that hugely unlikely...

JMoore is absolutely correct, those marks on the muzzle are UK civilian proof marks showing that it was sold 'out of service' into the UK Civilan gun trade, then sometime after it made its way the USA

[Peter Laidler]

It doesn't look as though the scope tin was matched to that rifle either as it probably carried scope 3001 originally

As is the Mk3 and bracket. Scope 20572 originally fitted to rifle G-30562. Let's see what I have on those numbers........

Nearest to lost 3001 is 3039 and a few close to 20572

[Roger Payne]

Catman, to answer your question about serial numbering; it is true that as far as we know 1403 Trials rifles were converted to 4T's. However, Enfield made about 2,500 Trials rifles altogether, so only just over half of them were converted. Neither were they converted sequentially, so you could come across pretty much any serial number between 1 & 2500 when looking at a Trials T. One of mine is serialled in the 2000+ range.

Hope this helps.

ATB.

[Peter Laidler]

While I was doing the little book, I NEVER, ever saw that 1403 number of conversions anywhere. The nearest to that I saw was at the Small Arms School library and on a procurement paper that stated words to the effect that 'a small quantity will be available to the new wing for testing' From that, I later learned that the 'new wing' was the new sniper wing that had just moved to Bisley to escape the bombing and shelling at Hythe.

So, has anyone else seen that figure on a document........?

[catman]

JMoore is absolutely correct, those marks on the muzzle are UK civilian proof marks showing that it was sold 'out of service' into the UK Civilan gun trade, then sometime after it made its way the USA

Ahhh, ok, Thats good info. as I said before, that's what was told to me (I was about 12 yrs old at the time), and I don't know much about it, so I appreciate the info.
Thanks,
Chuck

---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

Catman, to answer your question about serial numbering; it is true that as far as we know 1403 Trials rifles were converted to 4T's. However, Enfield made about 2,500 Trials rifles altogether, so only just over half of them were converted. Neither were they converted sequentially, so you could come across pretty much any serial number between 1 & 2500 when looking at a Trials T. One of mine is serialled in the 2000+ range.

Hope this helps.

ATB.

Yes, that does help, I'm learning more every day.
Thanks,
Chuck

---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

It doesn't look as though the scope tin was matched to that rifle either as it probably carried scope 3001 originally

As is the Mk3 and bracket. Scope 20572 originally fitted to rifle G-30562. Let's see what I have on those numbers........

Nearest to lost 3001 is 3039 and a few close to 20572

Yes, you are correct, the scope is not the correct match. I would love to find the matching scope and tool.
Thanks,
Chuck

[Roger Payne]

DPL, I recall you mentioning previously that you were unable to substantiate the exact total to be 1403. It's been the 'accepted' figure for years..........in fact I can't remember for sure where I first saw it. Was it Skenny that first came up with it in 'The LES' or 'TBS'?.......................My memory's getting old like the rest of me.....................

ATB

[catman]

Four clicks per revolution elevation adjustments on the rear sight?



You might as well forget that pat of the story. The markings near the muzzle, etc. make that hugely unlikely...

The scope adjusting tool doesn't go with that scope, but it is a nice addition to the early tin. (Might be the first trials rifle tin I've seen, BTW.)

Can you tell what scope, the tool is for??
Thanks,
Chuck