SMLE mounted troop rifle

[jmoore]

It has been here before Jim, when I had it a few years back, but I returned it ( was another dealer back then), as it was sale or return.......

This thread?: (ETA: one of these links works but isn't fancy, the other doesn't seem to load correctly right now, but did when the search was done.)

SMLE Yeomanry or Light Horse conversion

[Patrick Chadwick]

Regardless of any specific knowledge of Enfields, I find the cavalry "story" implausible.

If the object in question was altered to slide easily in and out of a scabbard, then the most obvious item to cause it to snag would be the sharp-cornered protrusion of the volley foresight, followed by the volley backsight and the cut-off plate handle. The nose, on the other hand, is not only not an impediment, but a positive advantage in keeping the muzzle clear of any fluff and dirt on the "floor". I have to use the "sardine-packing" method in my gun cabinets, and for this reason I am happy to store the No.IIIs nose down.

The nose is, of course, hollow, and can be dented. I have one such in my spares box. For me, the most plausible reason to cut off the nose and braze or silver-solder a plate over the hole would be if the original nosecap was bent to the point of uselessness - and there was no spare available! If spares were available, surely no-one would waste their time on repairing one? This thought makes it very doubtful for me that this is an arsenal or regimental workshop modification. More like Bubba thinking "what the hell am I going to do with this wreck".

Now in out-of the way places in desperate times there may be very good reasons for creative recycling of all sorts of spare parts. However, one criterion is an absolute killer: If that marking on the altered nosecap is a fake, then there are no excuses, no more-or-less plausible stories - it is a fake.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Trying to give this dubious object every chance, I took a close look at "The Lee Enfield Story" (1993 edition).

On P.56 it turns out that on the trials version of the Lee Metford MkII, the grasping grooves were omitted. Afterwards, in the final MKII pattern the recess under the cut-off handle was also omitted. So a fore-end with grooves but without recess is hard to explain. In my investigation I also took a look at other rifles with grasping grooves - Japanese, Russian, M1917/P14, but the grasping grooves from a Lee Metford MkI still look like the best fit.

On P.57 is a quote from LOC 6760 "A steel disc (blued) will be employed, instead of the brass disc, in arms issued for drill purposes only...".

Stretching my credulity to the limit, I could just about imagine this rifle as being a "local-brew" bitsa DP rifle. However, not being marked DP but with the dodgy marking on the altered nose-cap spoils even this story...

[jmoore]

If you look closely at the chamfer around the front end, it appears to have a much different finish than the sides. One would think a contemporary conversion would have matching finish as the whole thing would have been redone after the mods.

Never mind the cap is later than the rifle and the cross screw is much later.

[Badger]

Saved sale information and pics for posterity and future research by members ..

Regards,
Doug

EFD Rifles - The Enfield Specialists

#448 - 1908 Enfield Mounted Troop Mark III .303" - £3,150.00

This is a very rare rifle which was heavily officially modified for mounted troops. Sling attachments changed to cavalry specification, bayonet lug and boss removed for ease of stowage in the cavalry rifle boot. All modifications stamped with manufacturer’s inspection marks. Otherwise full Mark III specification with volley sights, windage rear sight, magazine cut off and round cocking piece. Beautiful bore. Unusual “kill” markings under the forend.

[Thunderbox]

It has been here before Jim, when I had it a few years back, but I returned it ( was another dealer back then), as it was sale or return.......

Didn't it get pulled to bits in the forums back then? Indian nosecap, bits from several rifles, non-factory workmanship, copy of local sling bar mod, odd looking stamps, etc.

IIRC it was another example of a rare or imagined rifle that had been .. er ... recreated by an individual for his own collection. Specimens from that collection are now turning up with all sorts of "provenance" attached.



IIRC the nosecap is Indian. I have several of them in one of my spares boxes (unfortunately currently in storage). They appear factory made, not converted or refinished. The metal behind the missing bayonet boss is solid. Not much known about them, but possibly originally intended for prison muskets or similar.

[bigduke6]

Didn't it get pulled to bits in the forums back then? Indian nosecap, bits from several rifles, non-factory workmanship, copy of local sling bar mod, odd looking stamps, etc.

IIRC it was another example of a rare or imagined rifle that had been .. er ... recreated by an individual for his own collection. Specimens from that collection are now turning up with all sorts of "provenance" attached.



IIRC the nosecap is Indian. I have several of them in one of my spares boxes (unfortunately currently in storage). They appear factory made, not converted or refinished. The metal behind the missing bayonet boss is solid. Not much known about them, but possibly originally intended for prison muskets or similar.

It certainly did TB, and with that I returned it ( it was up North at the time) from the collection of the late Chris Barber...........

Jmoore that's the thread, SMLE Yeomanry or Light Horse conversion.

I received a email some years back regarding the rifle, someone had purchased it from who I returned it too, I gave him all the info I had and suggested to him to return it, he was in the mind set it was Kosher and said he had it confirmed from the IWM and others !!!! It has had a touch up since it was in my hands. I,ll dig out my pics.

[blurrededge]

Looks like there is be a DP marking on top of the wrist, just under the cocking piece in one photo.

[Buccaneer]

Sorry, it would take a lot more than what looks to me like a mish-mash of poorly fitted parts with a Beverly Hills pricetag to make the story even conceivable, let alone believable.

I have no doubt that EFD do a lot of good things but their prices are always out of this world, they are the sort of people you need next to you at trade shows if you are selling Enfields as anything they have makes anything you have seem cheap, been there done that!!!!!!

[Roy]

With out the the flat bolt handle of a real cavalry carbine, the side mounted sling would have been uncomfortable at the least! K98's were designed as a cavalry carbine and have the sling on the left side.

I bet when the fellow sawed the bayonet boss off he cursed when he saw it was hollow and then had to make that plate for it. should have a serial no. there too.

My fantasy Sht. L E Mk III* M (Mounted) would have the following features

Piling swivel lugs removed from nosecap, so the piling swivel doesnt get caught in the reins if firing whilst mounted.
No volley sights, mounted troops are skirmishers / light infantry not used for massed firing.
Flat bolt handle, so the rifle can be stowed low in the bucket.
sling bar and sling on left side of rifle, supposedly more comfortable if slung across the back.

Based on the experiences of the mounted troops in the Levant during WW1 the New Zealand mounted rifles trailled........

looks like ive given the game away