Vetterli 6.5 Carcano

[Aragorn243]

"They saw extensive use in WWI and in WWII" you sure about that? They were rear guard guns: drivers, cooks, etc., guns not intended to be used. Not intended for front line units or troops at all. Not sure they saw any WWII use, just not sure, mind you. Handload and very light handloads at that. Good luck with this one.

Yes I'm sure. They saw extensive use in both wars. The Italian front was pretty flexible in that front lines were over run on many occasions and these rifles were used by the rear eschelon troops they were issued to. They were credited with the killing of an Austiran General and the shooting down of a blimp. In WWII they were used by the Ethiopian troops in Italian service. Quite a bit of history on them if you look. There are write ups about them in several gun magazines denoting their use and history. They used full standard 6.5 carcano ammo as issued during their entire Italian service and in present day Italy and Germany have been proof tested to these standards and passed. No one really recommends that however and hand loads with cast bullets are the standard today. They converted 500,000 of them along with a number of carbines which were issued to cavalry units.

[gew8805]

"They saw extensive use in WWI and in WWII" you sure about that? They were rear guard guns: drivers, cooks, etc., guns not intended to be used. Not intended for front line units or troops at all. Not sure they saw any WWII use, just not sure, mind you. Handload and very light handloads at that. Good luck with this one.

I have to agree with Calif-Steve, they saw no use by front line troops in either war though they were used by colonial troops outside of main battle regions in the 1914 - 1918 War. I have never seen one with a bad bore but have only seen about 50 or 60 over the years. Mine has a near perfect bore while the exterior shows heavy wear to the metal and wood finish.

[Aragorn243]

I never said they saw front line use in either war, they were never issued to front line troops. That does not mean they did not see action. They saw extensive action against Austria in WWI. Secondary troops were not all that sheltered in the Italian theater in WWI. They saw extensive action in Ethiopia in WWII as they were the primary weapon of issue of the colonial troops. They were used. They were fired, They did not blow up. Mine also has a near perfect bore and a very worn exterior. Nearly all listed on Gunbroker in recent listings have had very poor bores and that is what I base my findings on. That you personally examined 50 or 60 of these is impressive although I must admit to having doubts they all had good bores based on current sale listings.

Reviews by the two gun magazines which I read stated nearly all are shot out to various degrees. Various reviews on You-tube etc also make note of the difficulty of finding one with a pristine bore although they say many are in shooting condition with light loads.

No one recommends shooting them with full loads and I'm not recommending that either., but history has shown they stood up well to the pressures of the military loading.

[Midmichigun]

Aragorn,

Glad to hear that you got a bayonet for it. That is one accessory that I am looking for in piles of bayonets at Gunshows. You never know when you will run across one.

I agree that this rifle did see service in WWI. Some of my research indicates that although it was a "second line or cooks weapon", times were desperate, and quite a few saw action. But I am NOT saying by any means that it was a desired rifle or something that was highly respected.

As a side FYI, I do know that some gents have taken the Nepal Martini's that they purchased from IMA, and recalibered them to something less powerful, but more common (IIRC some were converted to .303Brit about 100yrs ago).

As both (Martini's and the Vetterli) were from the black powder era, and therefore might NOT be up to the job for running full power rifle loads. I suppose this could also be done to this type of gun. Some of the popular conversions for the Martini's have been 45LC (long colt).

I also agree with running low pressure rounds if you do wish to fire it in 6.5mm.

As such, I try and leave tags on any of my rifles that I have doubts or concerns about safety (especially if I haven't gotten around to repairing them yet). Hence why many folks do finally just clip the FP's or weld the bolt faces... therefore the intent is clear.

Looking on my tag, mine is an 1890 Terni. I also paid around $155.00 for it. IIRC, the barrel is almost mirror like!!

I did find the rifle in question, and will take photos. I also got out my Carcano ammunition, and will show you what a chambered round looks like. I "goobered" it up good with grease, so will need to clean it before I snap photos or chamber a round.

I am told that they are worth a bit more money, if you can find them in the original 11mm configuration.

[Aragorn243]

I have located and acquired a welded barrel that I can cut the front sight off of when it arrives. Any recommendations for how to go about this repair/replacement. If I could manage to cut it off the old barrel with a dovetail attached, I could install it with a dovetail but then that wouldn't exactly be proper and I don't think I could successfully pull it off.

[Aragorn243]

Aragorn,

I am told that they are worth a bit more money, if you can find them in the original 11mm configuration.

I've heard that too but then I wouldn't be interested in it. Not WWI which is my self imposed cut off.

[gew8805]

I've heard that too but then I wouldn't be interested in it. Not WWI which is my self imposed cut off.

Ah, but like your M70/87/15, they were issued to Italian rear echelon troops during WW1. The Italians also issued the Vitali magazine fed M70/87 as well. They also sent a number of Vetterlis - single shot and Vetterli-Vitali - in the original caliber as aid to Imperial Russian forces for use on the Eastern Front. So all of the versions of the Vetterli were WW1 issued.

But of course, you are right, there has to be a cut off somewhere or

For an excellent, short but detailed article by one of todays top collectors of WW1 firearms, equipment and uniforms see John Sheehan's article from his series of articles for Guns Magazine at:

Web Blast: Italian Shoulder Arms Of WWII | Guns Magazine

John's collection and knowledge about WW1 details are to die for.

[Aragorn243]

Ah, but like your M70/87/15, they were issued to Italian rear echelon troops during WW1. The Italians also issued the Vitali magazine fed M70/87 as well. They also sent a number of Vetterlis - single shot and Vetterli-Vitali - in the original caliber as aid to Imperial Russian forces for use on the Eastern Front. So all of the versions of the Vetterli were WW1 issued. .

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh, I read that also but have been ignoring it. I started out with a representative example, you know, the basic weapon most commonly found. That evolved into multiple variations of said primary weapon, and then more obscure secondary weapons. I then developed "The List" and this was designed to keep me from buying anything but what is on the list but the list got frustrating and the bargains started being available and "The List" while still there has been ignored repeatedly. This Vetterli broke all the rules as I did not know much about it when I purchased it and I KNEW it was obsolete by WWI. It was priced right. At least my Chinese 88 is on my list, sort of, I have the Chiang Kai-shek rifle on there but this is an adequate substitute and I'll probably drop the other one.

[Aragorn243]

I have acquired another barrel that was rendered useless by having the breech welded shut. It probably won't get here for at least a week but I'm going to cut off the sight and install it on this one. I'm concerned about heating it to braze it into place so I'm leaning toward some sort of glue. It will have a fairly large mating surface so it should stick but what would you recommend using? I'm concerned about heating due to the barrel liner being soldiered in place.

[WarPig1976]

JB weld, sold at auto parts stores and home centers.