No5 Mk1 from Old Western Scrounger

[intellivore]

I scrubbed with a bronze brush, poked with a toothpick, and carefully used plastic dental picks until it was free and clear.

[Peter Laidler]

It will give you a lifetime of further service............... Some time ago a forumer showed a picture of a typical ex Malaya No5 barrel that was heavily pitted from top to bottom. Probably a bit worse that I would have accepted for rebuild but it was still going strong.

[browningautorifle]

I had a #5 some 40 years ago that had a barrel pitted so badly, and chamber, extraction was a bit of a nightmare. It was always hard to open the bolt handle...it showed on the brass.

[Peter Laidler]

I had a No4 Mk1/2 like that too. Difficult to open the bolt as the chamber was so bad and the barrel was like a sewer. But it was accurate and zeroed in well. That was the one that got slightly mixed up when some of the No4T's were returned. Some dozy half asleep Arms storeman got my accurate sewer pipe mixed up with one of the No4T's going back to Ordnance so I just had to get on with my life with a No4T instead. Well......., I didn't want to drop the poor arms storeman in the xxxx did I?

[intellivore]

Oooooooh, Captian, you lucky, lucky bastard!

Long and short, I'm making Mt. Doom out of a hobbithole? The pit isn't going to pose an issue? That makes my day a world better!

To the grease, would a small ammount of packing grease be alright?

[Seaspriter]

I'm making Mt. Doom out of a hobbithole? The pit isn't going to pose an issue? That makes my day a world better!

Ah, Intellivore, you are one of the chosen few! The Old Scrounger is just what his name implies -- you got a parts gun that is one of the lucky ones. The Old Scrounger may or may not have had high standards for safety in selling a Grade 2 gun to you. We cannot tell from his website whether they used British Armourer's standards in selling you the gun -- perhaps they did to avoid a possible litigation. When I looked at the pictures of some of their Grade 2 No.5s, I cringed.

Fortunately, the Milsurps "league of experts" like Captain Laidler, & others have offered their expertise to help less knowledgeable folks like you and I . If you want to understand the value of having their masterful advice, I encourage you to read this thread: Combining a DP Enfield, a Shooter and a Gunsmith ended up with catastrophic failure! It's the Sad Saga of Old Joe, who bought a WWI Enfield that had been DP'd. He nearly blew his hand off, and was recovering from surgery.

The Saga had real meaning to me, because at the very time this thread was active, a friend of mine was lamenting about how he bought a '42 Long Branch Enfield from a less than honorable dealer, and paid full freight for it. When he checked the barrel, it had a big bulge in it under the upper barrel band. When I examined the gun, it was stamped DP all over the gun -- all stock pieces, barrel bands, etc. Because of the Sad Saga of Old Joe, I immediately understood DP stood for "Defective Parts", not Detroit or Dublin Police!

Had the Milsurps experts not offered their advice, I would have been a Bignorant, and advise my friend simply to counterbore the last 4 inches of the muzzle to relieve any stress on the barrel. Instead, I bought the gun from him for $150, repainted the DP stripes and stencils on the stock and fore-end, put an engraved plaque on the left side stating the gun had been "Decommissioned -- Unsafe to Shoot", and put a full, detailed explanation with barrel bulge graphics on a piece of paper and rolled it into the "butthole"(that term sounds rather crass) for posterity. Hopefully this saved someone's grandson ages hence.

As a Navy Corpsman, your job was to save lives. Safety is still the #1 priority for all old gun collectors. Shoot safe, shoot straight, and Semper Fi!
Robert (USNR)

[Seaspriter]

You ought to leave all that grease between the rifle body and barrel and the woodwork. It;'s there for a GOOD reason, especially up where you are based! Now that you've taken all the gunbge out of the woodwork you ought to set about it with BLO. And plenty of it in my limited experience.

Perhaps some info from the M-1 Garand/Carbine Civilian Marksmanship website (Wood Cleaning Article | Civilian Marksmanship Program) may shed some light on why the metal/wood interface should be treated with a Mineral Jelly/Vaseline substance, with a beeswax mixed in:
"Why USGI Walnut Takes On the “Springfield Arsenal Red” Color -- M1 Garand USGI wood was finished with boiled linseed oil at the beginning of manufacture and then with boiled tung oil later into the manufacturing era.......The wood over time got smoother from handling, darker from dirt and oil and grease, and redder from the effects of oxidation of the Mil-Spec lubricants and rust preventatives, oxidation of boiled linseed oil, and oxidation of boiled tung oil. Oxidizing of the various oils in the soup is where the red color comes from in walnut after several years goes by of normal USGI care and handling. The red is not a stain effect and not the color of walnut. It is the various oils oxidizing. It takes years for it to become the predominant color in the wood....The almost black color along the metalwood lines of firearms would indicate....... over time, gun oil dissolves the resins in wood and makes it mushy. For example, the compression effect of Garand receivers/trigger guards crushing the wood is in part caused by oil damage to the wood."

This site goes on to elaborate on the technical details of finishing the woodwork that I figured out by trial and error (wished I had found this info earlier -- would have saved a lot of experiment learning):

"Linseed Oil [meaning RLO] is a natural product best described as a yellowish oil extracted from the seeds of flax grown to make linen. Linseed oil does not dry well and does little to exclude moisture from wood. Tung Oil is also a natural product best described as a yellow or brownish oil extracted from the seeds of the tung tree. It is also called Chinawood oil. Tung oil does not dry well either and is only slightly better at moisture exclusion than linseed oil. Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) is a mixture of linseed oil, a carrier or solvent, and driers. It is superior to pure linseed oil [RLO] in that it will more completely dry over time and is slightly more waterproof. BLO does not completely cure or dry and multiple coats dry even less well. Boiled Tung Oil (BTO) is a mixture of tung oil, a carrier or solvent, and driers. It is superior to pure linseed oil, pure tung oil, and boiled linseed oil in that it will more likely cure or dry over time and is slightly more waterproof. The BTO finish is slightly harder and more resistant to gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms. None of these four products is really good at excluding moisture from wood."

"As to the M1 Garand Rifle, it is believed that the original manufacturer’s finish utilized boiled linseed oil into which the stocks were dipped and then dried. Subsequently, what might be called boiled tung oil was used instead. The boiled tung oil was a mixture of real tung oil, a carrier or solvent such as mineral spirits or turpentine, and driers similar to those added to boiled linseed oil to help cure the oil."

"Minwax Tung Oil Finish is an oil and varnish blend that is much more waterproof and will dry due to added driers. It can be built up into a gloss, but that is not usually done. It is best used as an in the wood finish rather than a built up on the wood finish. Minwax Tung Oil Finish resists scratches and is more resistant to gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms. The best qualities of Minwax Tung Oil Finish allow it to be wiped on and wiped off properly prepared wood leaving an in the wood finish of a look similar to BLO, but far more stable and protective. A number of coats to clean and repair scratches can be applied without building up on the surface if rubbed in carefully and then rubbed dry. Other finish products with similar sounding names may have far more varnish and behave differently in use."

"Linseed oil [RLO], tung oil, BLO, or BTO cannot successfully be applied over ........ varnish [which] ....seals out the older natural finishes and they will not dry."

Hope this is helpful.
Robert

[Seaspriter]

XG 279 -US its equivalent was produced 50 years ago as "Rifle Grease," but it seems hard to find. What would you recommend as a common replacement? Should we put the grease any other places ?

Answering my own question here, some more research found this answer on the M-1 Garand website (How To Clean Your Guns )

"The conventional wisdom is:
If it rotates, oil it. If it slides, grease it."

"Generally speaking, "oil" is lighter weight, less viscous and free-flowing at room temperature, while "grease" is thicker and not a liquid at room temperature. There is no specific threshold for just what is an oil versus what is a grease, but Rem Oil definitely is a light-weight non-viscous oil. A light-weight oil like Rem Oil will very effectively penetrate between tightly fitting parts, including around pins. "

There are several choices for viscous grease. "Shooter's Choice" is popular; its thin nozzle [& hypodermic needle style thumb piston] lets you control where you apply it, making it easier to lubricate slide rails. "Hoppe's Gun Grease" is the other popular alternative."

[Vincent]

I consulted with a lead lubrication engineer for one of the major oil companies. This is what I learned:

Grease is simply oil that is mixed with a thickener. It is about 90% oil and 10% “soap”. The thickener acts like a sponge and is not chemically bound to the oil. When something presses on the grease, the oil squeezes out to do the lubricating.

There are different kinds of thickeners. For best rust protection, the lube engineer recommends calcium sulfonate. This type of grease is used for boat trailers and other very wet applications where water resistance and rust protection is important.

Where should you use oil vs. grease? If you want the lubricant to stay put, use grease. If you want it to penetrate, use oil. You can generally go much longer without relubricating if you use grease.

[Vincent]

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