Is Kel-Tec SU-16 simply a modern embodiment of the M1 Carbine?

[imarangemaster]

I mentioned in another thread (Urban Combat) that I was picking up a Kel-Tec SU-16B 5.56 to replace my Inland as a home/ranch defense weapon.

The US Army specs in 1940 for the M1 Carbine wanted a 5 pound "light rifle" with a 20 round magazine. The Winchester made submission was made of wood and steel, which was the norm for weapons of the time period.

If it was today, the common materials fro weapons is polymer, aluminum,and steel. The Kel-Tec SU-16B is 4.5 pounds unloaded, is made of these modern materials. It uses the standard M16 magazine, and folds in haf for storageMy M1 Carbine with a stock pouch has two 15s and a 30 in the weapon, and the Kel-Tec has a 30 in the stock, and a 30 in the weapon. I think it is a modern incarnation of the M1 Carbine.

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[Sentryduty]

I think it's a pretty fair assessment, I personally like the Kel-Tec range. They aren't exactly go to war guns in their current configuration, they just a tad light duty (Would love to see a military trails type test on the guns) but the design seems sound and the packaging is very clever.

As a PDW goes the SUB-2000 could be a competitor for modern M1 Carbine but doesn't visually fill the role.

Reminds me, I should get a SU-16, already have a PMR-30, SU-22, and SUB2000 (Gen 1)

[browningautorifle]

I'd like to try one out myself...

[Sentryduty]

I have shot them, and they work well, the current selling price is just a little warm for my taste currently due to the exchange rate. Generally approaching $1000 CDN

They are a compact little gas piston system and captive recoil springs, I can't recall exactly how it groups I want to say 2 MOA ish? Good enough for all field uses.

I like the innovative design, I don't see that in modern guns very much.

[imarangemaster]

The gas system is like a cross of an AK and an AR180. The first one I had in 2006 shot 1.12" at 100 yards with iron sights from the bench using M193 ball. My 50 yard, 5 shot, 1 shot per second group using the red dot was sub-2" with a 4 MOA red dot. The barrel of the B model I have is much lighter than the A or CA models, and is 2 inches shorter. I would prefer the heavier barrel, but wanted the shorter length to fold into the back pack when hiking.

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

The 16B with the thinner barrel has been mentioned as not holding up to sustained firing. Now what does sustained mean, I don't know.
The 16B is 4.5lbs and 35.9 " long with a 16" barrel. M1 Carbine 5.2lbs and 35.6" long with an 18" barrel.

Similar in size and weight to a carbine, but completely different in caliber and characteristics. With the stock materials used it will take a beating better then the wood of an M1. And less money than a carbine, Buds Guns has them for $534 with free shipping.

It has it's plus and minuses.

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[Sentryduty]

The only consideration with the construction materials was the few noted failures of the rear of the receiver cracking, these guns were warranty replaced as far as I know, but I wonder fi they were QC failures or something needs to be adjusted in molding design. I have only seen two that I can recall in Canada (that broke) so I wouldn't think it is a widespread issue.

One, that I personally shot did have a problem consistently piercing primers on factory ammo right out of the box, the issue was traced to an oversized firing pin hole, which was replaced under warranty, however it did sideline the gun for a few months waiting for the pieces.

I think the thin barrels would probably just allow the groups to open up as the firearm warms up, which depending on use may not even be a concern. I doubt anyone has torn the rifling out of one yet from over use, but I honestly haven't researched them in awhile.

Like most of my guns I buy with an eye to run thousands of rounds but in reality get out shooting so seldom most have round counts under 500, I think a light profile barrel would last me just fine.

I do also appreciate Kel-Tec for considering and building special market versions of their products, such as the California and Canada compliant models.

[imarangemaster]

All Kel Tecs are California compliant from the factory, except the C model, which has a folding stock that allows firing while folded. I checked the primers, and they were fine. I believe this one is a little beefier in the back area where the failures in early Kel Tecs occurred. They have a lifetime warranty, which is unusual these days. If I were fighting a war, I'd grab my AK or Mid-Length AR15 build. FGor home defense and coyote popping, though, I doubt if I will fire enough rounds to heat up the light barrel for group wandering. Here is my range report from another forum"
Picked up the SU-16 B Model from my dealer today. It is NIB, and has the 1/7 twist barrel. As I said, I had a B Model when they first came out and loved it, but let a friend talk me out of it in 2007. Just ordered this to fill the gap for a ""California Featureless" home defense carbine.

"Well, picked it up and proceeded to "The Range" (that really is its name!) in Grass Valley. They have a 50 yard indoor rifle so I thought I would sight it in. The ammo was MK262 MOD1 77grn OTM Sierra Match Kings, which clock from a 16" barrel at about 2750 fps. I have both IMI and CBC/Magtech loadings of it. In my M4gery, they perform identical to the Military Black Hills loading, which I have also used.

First I used irons and battle sighted at 25 yards, with POI 1" lower than POA. That will give me a dead on hold to 225-250 yards. Only took 6 shots to get it dialed in. I was using a seated position with a casual rest (elbow on the table) and no sand bag. Groups averaged 1/2 or less from the irons.

I then put on my vintage Tasco ProPoint 30mm red dot. I zeroed it at 50 yards, dead on POI/POA. groups were about 1" to 1.5" from the same casual rest. That should also serve me for a dead on to 200. I was VERY happy. I used pre-2000 possessed USGI 30s, and had zero malfunctions.

I also fired some M193 federal Lake City, and my 55 FMJBT loads, 25 grains of 4064 and 21.5 grains of 4198. It ate everything.

I REALLY like this little beast! It weighs in at just over 4 pounds, empty. It won't replace my ARs or my AK, but it is "tits" for a ranch/home defense weapon. I have a feeling that coyote that has been stalking the house pets down by the horse pasture might feel a 77 grn. OTM soon."