SAS L1A1 (but not really)

[mrclark303]

Finally, a respected Armourer breaks cover and gives the official reason for these short rifles, cheers Mike!

I hear you were involved with the early classified Humber pig / Sarsons pickled onion trials, hope I haven't got you into bother with the Official secrets act!

[Gil Boyd]

I never knew April the 1st carried on so long after the date

[Peter Laidler]

Bayonets were fixed early on, in 1969-70 but not in my time. The powers that be had the practice stopped so far as I know and recall, they weren't even carried. Over to you Gil and tankie for that answer?

Oh, yes...... I see now. But not being a computer teccie I didn't get the clue in the name. Like I said, we didn't have them here except at Shrivenham/Cranfield. As for the increased accuracy when shortened, I accept that our accuracy tests were more scientific in test ranges and laboratories rather than field tests and then only using NATO RG ball ammo.

As a matter of interest and as a bit of an aside to the subject, even the weight differences between the original flash eliminator (the f/e) and the proposed strengthened designs made a difference to the accuracy patterns formed with the control sample rifles. The weight of a redesign had to be very similar to be acceptable otherwise a revamped rearsight had to be considered as part of the package so that........ anyway....... Anyone care to tell us the weights of a bare 5 and 3 fluted f/e?

[Gil Boyd]

Never ever used or were issued bayonets for NI. They may have been to other units in the very very early days, but certainly not our Regiment. Maybe in the days when live rounds were issued out sparingly, and it was more of an aggressive stance to have a bayonet fitted, but by his hand position on the trigger guard, says to me, he "ain't carrying anything in his mag he means to use"

The other key thing noticeable in that photoshop photo, is that we always had the front part of the sling removed from the rifle, and made into a loop and anchored around our wrists. A trend we started, which caught on fairly quickly, as soldiers were dragged away by screaming women and crowds, and their weapon ended up on the wrong side, quite OFTEN

[Gil Boyd]

Good old image as it was originally, and the second one showing the strap around the wrist. One must not forget both sides gave us tea and cakes for the couple of years before it all kicked off, they were really pleased to see us..........then nowt for the next 35 years

[mrclark303]

Thanks for sharing the great pics Gil, it wasn't all bad news though, Embassy Gold could be had for 3'10

Joking aside, the Northern Ireland assembly might be a royal pain in the arse, but at least its a Northern Ireland pain in the arse and they are sorting out their own problems these days...

[browningautorifle]

Humber pig / Sarsons pickled onion trials

Don't take a glass jar into the Humber pig...

he "ain't carrying anything in his mag he means to use"

Looks like he's carrying a rifle that's much too cumbersome for him, resting on the basic pouch and nothing behind his eyes...

[Peter Laidler]

They also found that as they'd surround a bloke, shout and spit etc etc, one of them would quickly try to slice the sling with a seat-belt cutter thing. But cutting a nylon seat belt was easier that cutting a cotton weave sling. Remind me Gil......., after my time....... but did you use the clip-on plastic coated wire hawsers on L1A1's? They were used on SMG's, taken from the Arctic Warfare Mod packs because the seat belt cutters could slice those slings easily. They were quite short and it meant that the SMG couldn't be rotated through 180 degrees and fired back at you.

He's got a tie on his shirt too BAR. They'd have that throttling him within seconds. I think that photo was VERY early....., late '69 I'd say.

[browningautorifle]

I think that photo was VERY early....., late '69 I'd say.

That must have been wonderful, having some of those old RSMs that insisted on a necktie in operations. Glad I missed it.

[Gil Boyd]

Peter,
That made me spit out my afternoon tea with a chuckle. I don't think the lad has been much of anywhere, where he might encounter an angry man.
Never seen anybody with a number two shirt and tie on except RMP in those early days, before they were given Red berets instead of smart parade dress cap............The lad has to be BFBS or an Army film unit, he looks so out of it.
It does look staged.
All we had were the slings, whether SLR or SMG, that was our Regimental SOP's anyway right through the seventies I believe, certainly till the SA80 came in.
No GPMG allowed in any city limits either...........only on the border or out in the fields.

We had two tours at Bessbrook before the Mill was converted and then one after when it became to busiest Heliport in Europe, and not once did I ever see any variation used by "special units" other than what was issued, with as I said earlier the Armalite.

It did cause some anx, because the last thing you wanted to be using was a non 7.62 rifle or weapon and run out of ammo in the countryside. That would have caused too much cross fertilisation of ammo needed to be carried by all insundry.
The chopper pad we built at the school at the other end of the village was where the Scouts/Sioux were operated from, and it was considered in those days not the done thing to have weapons mounted in the doors of the Scouts, so it was a strop across open gaps, no doors and stand on the skids, with your chest on the strop. Couldn't find a decent photo of the two together but this was in the Radfan.
Here are three from that tour in NI I just laid my hands on one of the Trilux trials. This is why the sling loops came into their own if you were unlucky to drop your rifle from the helicopter, you always had it attached to your wrist!!!!