No1 MkIII Marking

[gerard488]

Hi All. some of those marks have me confused, the one on the knox form after the sq inch mark, the one after the v above the barrel serial number and the strange marks below the serial number. This rifle also has what looks like ears for a sling swivel in front of the mag, matching bolt and ESSEX on top of the barrel behind the rear sight. I don't see a slot for the magazine cut off, there is a slot but is lower down and is covered by the wood and by the side of the mag. Also wondering, is it a candidate for restoration or is it kinda ruined by the "ESSEX" stamp? Wondering if anyone can shed any light, Thanks in advance

Information

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[browningautorifle]

You'll spend more to restore this one that to buy one in military dress as is. Have a look on CanadianGunNutz and see for yourself.

[CINDERS]

The wrist of the butt stock has sure been pounded by a sander as it appears well below the receiver socket.

G.R under crown King George the Fifth reigned from 1910 ~ 1936

R ~ SMLE, barrel knox form = Replacement or Reserve Grade barrel,

C ~ could stand for = Parts assigned for use in a skeleton action!

Source The Broad Arrow By Ian Skennerton

The V and the T in a square box could/may be individual inspector stamping's my Lithgow 1916 has a circle with a question mark in it that no one here or on any other site has been able to decipher. (Pic)

Given the age of these weapons the intervening years and 2 world wars and countless other conflicts makes deciphering some of their markings nigh on impossible. But someone may have a better resource that I.

I agree with Jim getting it back to trim can be a costly exercise especially if your sourcing period correct like I did with my 1916 and after all of that it is still a made up era rifle.

[muffett.2008]

V is the serial number prefix

[nijalninja]

Hey mate, the slot being covered sounds like it had the MKIII fore-end replaced by a MKIII* fore-end which in turn has a higher wall where the cut-off is on the no star rifle. Maybe done after service since I don't think armourers would have swapped the whole fore-end after removing the cut-off and re-stamping it with the star, unless the original stock was damaged in service and replaced after wards which I believe would have a matching date on the butt-stock. I am going to take a stab and say that the "essex" mark is from an importer?

Also looks like the old girl has done the hard yards, but I dare say unless the reciever is flogged its never beyond restoring. If she has a matching bolt and the butt has the same rack number as the reciever then that is good enough for me to restore, should I ever get the time. I am however with Cinders about the butt-stock being sanded down: Look at the hook on the heel of the butt and you'll see it is not near as pronounced as it should be.

Whether a gun is worth restoring is up to you my friend.

[browningautorifle]

its never beyond restoring

The cost will be staggering, small parts can be all but unavailable. It's far more cost efficient to just buy a full wood rifle. Of course then you could just use all the parts to restore this one and make a sporter out of the other.

[Sunray]

"...The cost will be staggering..." And that's being polite. Mostly it's all the wee metal bits and screws that can add up to more than the rifle is worth. For example, the nose cap runs $11.15US each. $3.50US(~ $4.53Cdn.) each for the front screw that holds it on. Adds up fast.
However, the first thing to do is check the headspace and slug the barrel. If the headspace is bad, the rifle isn't safe to shoot(even if it was used for moose for eons or the matching S/N). Costs a fortune to fix too. Easy to fix, but you need a handful of bolt heads and proper headspace gauges to do it.
If the barrel is bigger than .312", finding ammo and/or bullets will be an issue. Commercial hunting ammo and reloading bullets are .311" or .312" with larger cast bullets possible but not exportable from the U.S. Isn't a safety issue though. Strictly accuracy.
"...don't see a slot for the magazine cut off..." No such thing on a Mk III*. The mag cut off was discontinued with the '*' modifications done in 1915.
The stamps under the 'R' are assorted proof and acceptance marks. The broad arrow is the Brit acceptance stamp.
The 'BNP' stamps are required by Brit law on any milsurp sold through England. They have nothing to do with the military anywhere.
The 'ESSEX' is rumoured to be a trade name used by J. Stevens Arms Company, who may have imported the thing. There's also a rumour about it being a 'grade' of sporterised rifle.

[gerard488]

Thanks to all for the replies, not gonna try to restore this one but will someday buy a complete original.

[browningautorifle]

someday buy a complete original

There's a few at reasonable price on CanadianGunNutz right now...have a look...

[CINDERS]

Just as a figure 10 years ago I redid my 1916 Lithgow 5MD MkIII along with correctly dated '07 1916 5MD Bayonet & Scabbard back to as issued as it was missing the items.
With period correct and Lithgow Star stamped parts which it required; a complete Magazine (Ended up with a transitional mag), complete safety (Dumbell spring), piling swivel & screw, 1916 Wrights Black (Not Blancoed) sling, correct early cocking piece, butt rear swivel & screw, mag cut off & screw.

Admittedly the bayonet & scabbard ate up a large part of the funds as they were each separate purchases but I only paid $100 for the rifle and it cost $300 for just the bits if you factor in the complete lot it was $850 all up.