L4 mag issues

[Peter Laidler]

Peter Laidler hasn't been here simply because what he knows and understands about the semi auto cut-rewelds could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a biro. And there'd STILL be space for the Lords Prayer

[AmEngRifles]

Peter Laidler hasn't been here simply because what he knows and understands about the semi auto cut-rewelds could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a biro. And there'd STILL be space for the Lords Prayer

Dear Peter, IF you ever have any spare time, check out this website. Fun projects by many a talented individual, including Mighty Lime and his award winning Bren build.

http://www.weaponsguild.com



No worries on no input. I understand exactly why there as there was simply no experience in this area. But I always appreciate your oversight and insight. I am guessing that there were no mag issues once the L4 were fielded. My problem seems to originate internally in the gun. At least that is what I believe now.

[Peter Laidler]

To be honest, there were MAJOR mag issue problems with the early X10 and L4A1 guns and even MORE when they were formulating the L4A2 Bren with the enlarged front knib that had to seat a little lower into the body. Unbelievably, the .303" gun body drawings that they were working from were not quite correct. To finally work out what was REALLY going wrong, they had to cut a body longiudinally straight down the middle from end to end. Only then could they see and establish what the problem was and how to solve it in two quite simple ways

[Lee Enfield]

To be honest, there were MAJOR mag issue problems with the early X10 and L4A1 guns and even MORE when they were formulating the L4A2 Bren with the enlarged front knib that had to seat a little lower into the body. Unbelievably, the .303" gun body drawings that they were working from were not quite correct. To finally work out what was REALLY going wrong, they had to cut a body longiudinally straight down the middle from end to end. Only then could they see and establish what the problem was and how to solve it in two quite simple ways

I take it that is the vertical pin thru the front locking recess to hold the top cover detent spring, and the 2 feed lip inserts?

[AmEngRifles]

To be honest, there were MAJOR mag issue problems with the early X10 and L4A1 guns and even MORE when they were formulating the L4A2 Bren with the enlarged front knib that had to seat a little lower into the body. Unbelievably, the .303" gun body drawings that they were working from were not quite correct. To finally work out what was REALLY going wrong, they had to cut a body longiudinally straight down the middle from end to end. Only then could they see and establish what the problem was and how to solve it in two quite simple ways

Now THAT I would like to see. Kinda like cutting a hog with a band saw from head to hole!

I am hoping that because mine is an L4A4, they had that all worked out. I knew there were early problems, but was not sure if that persisted through the life of the L4 series? And that makes it sound like there was a POSITION issue with the mag, not a design issue with the mag itself??

[AmEngRifles]

Now THAT I would like to see. Kinda like cutting a hog with a band saw from head to hole!

I am hoping that because mine is an L4A4, they had that all worked out. I knew there were early problems, but was not sure if that persisted through the life of the L4 series? And that makes it sound like there was a POSITION issue with the mag, not a design issue with the mag itself??

Update: 4.15.19. Not sure why I didn’t think of this sooner.

Has been a while with me still working through these issues with my Historic Arms L4A4. I ended up in touch with Mighty Lime and purchased one of his striker set up. I was having continued issues with the HA gun, as well as firing issues with my Project Guns Mk III. Because ML leaves both rails on his striker ( reflects his approach to builds in semi auto Brens), it is a no go to work in the HA Bren due to the fact Len welds up the left side guideway and mills down the rail on both the piston extension and his striker. So a no go with the ML system in a Historic Arms Gun unless you have the rail guideway milled open again. Then that leads to questions of trying to alter the Bren body to accept full auto parts. Don’t need to go down that path. Mighty Lime has been looking at his system altered to work with Historic Arms Brens, but does not have any set up at this date.

The Project Guns Mk III I put the ML striker system in runs great now! There is only one issue I found associated with ML lighter striker. It runs and pops all commercial primers in modern manufactured .303 with no problems. However, it does not strike the very hard primers of some South African Mk VII I tried. In those instances, I can understand the virtues of the heavy striker HA Brens use. Of course, heavy striker needs heavy spring ( maybe?) which leads to reliability issues.

NOW, what I started out to report got pushed back in the story because I was prefacing with some of the things I have learned along the way. But I woke up this morning with the revelation that I could lessen the spring pressures on my HA L4A4 by removing one spring. I removed the inner recoil spring in the set of nested recoil springs and tried running 5 rounds into the gun, from a mag. This was to confirm there was still enough spring drive to strip a round from the mag and fully chamber. It worked! So off to the range I go!

While it was still unfortunately NOT the Fix All I hoped it would be, the gun ran about 95% better with reduced spring pressure to overcome. I had already backed the gas regulator down to a “ number 3” setting and that seemed fine. When I tried it at “2” I started getting misfeeds of Bolt Over Bass again. So regulator back to “3”.

I am still hoping to reduce the weight of the HA Striker, plus lighten the spring load of the striker spring, but have not located a spring maker yet. Made an inquiry with Len Savage to get a spare striker and striker spring, but got no reply? Wondering if he has gone out of business now?

So my L4 A4 still does not operate 100%, but it is getting closer. I do think some of the L4 mag springs may be a bit weak after all these years. Had a few issues with last round in the magazine doing the BOB thing. Think the round is bouncing in the mag once the rest of the stack is no longer there to keep heavier pressure downward...

[csmarcher]

I own six of HA's Brens, MK I through L4A4 and my L4A3 and L4A4 work spectacularly well. Early on in the R&D times with Len, we did find that certain guns were more finiky than others, and that removing a coil or two from the striker spring often helped. In some of the early guns the #1 gas port on the regulator was opened up to make it into a "#5" for use with older cordite ammo. I have one of these sitting in my spares bin along with an extra striker spring if you'd like to borrow it to try in your gun.

Drop me a line if I can be of help.

Cheers

Gary

[AmEngRifles]

Thanks Gary, tried to send a PM. Don’t think it went thru?

Would prefer to buy an extra set to modify. Certainly would not modify a borrowed set, but rather get a set to see if I could modify for more reliable operation. I am getting closer to figuring it out.

[Joe H]

AER,

Below is a summary of my troubleshooting experience with the Bren semi auto. I used the striker design with the striker spring on the return rod. This was long before Mighty Lime's spring system.
I'm not sure this is the same system as Historic Arms. I think HA may have used a striker spring in place of the buffer and opened up the gas ports. If this is the case the striker is cocked on the rearward motion of the bolt. The system I used cocked the striker on the forward motion of the bolt.
I did find as CSMarcher noted removing coils from the striker spring sometimes made a difference.

Maybe this link will be of some help:

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Joe

[AmEngRifles]

Thanks Joe. I had started down that path you had suggested. I got the springs to go around the recoil rod, but never could make a satisfactory block to keep it from going through the striker. I may readdress that, but never understood the part about taking up space with the recoil spring inside the butt? Seems like nothing inside the receiver has any effect on the recoil compression inside the butt?? Am I not seeing something there? I never got to the point were I fired the thing, mostly because of the striker "plug" issues.

Now that I have an extra Project Guns striker laying around, it may work with your upgrade? Have to check firing pin protrusion to see?

Thanks for refreshing your approach to the issue.

One other thing that MIGHT work is to go ahead and get another ML striker system (he makes them in batches and may not have any at the moment?) and just file away the left side guide rail on the ML striker. Between his striker guide rod and the right side guide rail, I don't think the striker would bind? ML made me two firing pins as well, one in HA length and one in PG length. I may find some combination of striker and spring other than the HA system that works in the L4?

I should't have to be working this hard on a rifle that cost well over 5k. Having semi auto Bren's should be for builders only. I compare this to a buddy who used to own a Porsche, then sold it. Said it was fun to drive when it was running well, but it spent a lot of time in the shop getting tweaked.

Joe, thanks for the Link. I am on there, but only as a browser, since I am not a builder. I tried to find a local machinist, and Tony was suggested. Found his web site, dropped him an e-mail. Never got a response. I will keep searching for the right answer and combination. If I can get the left side rail pathway milled out, say for the length JUST enough to allow the striker it's travel, I would do that, but yet to find a machinist in my area. I think Mad Dog Machinist is in Macon, but have yet to attempt to connect with him. But, if I get it milled, I will upgrade to the ML system in this L4 as well.