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Legacy Member
Having read a lot about the sighting routine of these carbines, if you were in the vicinity, it passed. The carbines are funny weapons, Look at one from the top and sometimes the various part groups look like they don't belong together. The barrel points one way and the receiver another, but they work. Expecting accuracy is not a sure thing. No matter how new and original the carbine is doesn't guarantee accuracy. I have a NPM with an IBM barrel that holds the 10 ring at 100 yds on an SR-1. That's about 3-4". I have two essentially new originals, a 5.6 Win and a 5.4 Inland, low miles, type 2-3 sights, new barrels, etc. They both shoot to point of aim having left the factory with type 2 bands and factory adjustable sights. They should easily out perform the NPM but they don't. The NPM has a barrel that measures probably 1 or 2, it sits in a beat up I cut Inland stock and has a type 3 band. You just don't know. They were pounding out 1000 a day at these factories and were built to be adequate, not perfect. That they are as nice as they are is a treat.
These carbines were wildly popular in the European theater. My late FIL was an officer in the "Red Ball Express" pushing supplies from Omaha toward Germany 24/7. He received a brand new Carbine and it was stolen the first day. Hauling around a handy 5lb weapon as compared to an 8lb big not handy Garand, was what these GIs wanted. In N.Africa, Brig Gen Theodore Roosevelt 2nd man in charge of the 1st division carried a carbine and plugged people, mostly French Bedouins with it to great effect. He had no problem shooting people who were problems, no matter who's side hey were on.
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02-28-2020 01:41 PM
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Found my picture:
'Really Senior Member'
Especially since I started on the original Culver forum. That had to be about 1998.
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Legacy Member
Last november at the Tulsa show my kid bought a Universal rifle. It was one of the dreaded final cheaply made versions.
After thorough cleaning and inspection, we checked its zero. Surprisingly it was on for windage. A small elevation adjustment and we were consistantly hitting 10 inch plates at 220 yards.
I was shocked at how consistant it was and how reliable it was. So far, no signs of cracks or defects.
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I got the chance to attend the Western Games. They ran the first part but C-19 cancelled the later part. I shot in the M1 Carbine match. I had not really done much with this rifle: NRA early 60's, sportorized 1970's, back to USGI 1990's. At 100 yards with Remington Green and White box FMJ I had to have eight clicks left and hold the 2.5 on the TOP of the black. I shot a 318/400. On the prone rapid I think I went for a 6:00 hold, because all my shots were low and right. I could hold the black of the SR-1 in prone slow and sitting rapid. We shot in the shade and I find I do better in the sun because of my older eyes (smaller pupils). The trigger on the Carbine is combat approved but pretty much like breaking a thick twig and not so friendly when fine accuracy counts. The rifle has all the CMP recommended tweaks: M2 stock, action hangs off the recoil plate, bayonet band, adjustable sight. The mags all worked well and no FTF's. The winner shot somewhere in the high 360's. Your mileage may vary.
Dave
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Legacy Member
Most carbines even with fairly well worn barrels are capable of 4 inch or smaller 100 yard groups. If the groups are larger than that, the culprit is almost always stock or band fit. The recoil plate should hold the barrel about 1/2 inch above the stock channel without the hand guard on and with the barrel band loose and clear of the stock. If this isn't the case, the recoil plate needs to be replaced or adjusted in the stock to hold the barrel slightly elevated. The barrel band should fit fairly snuggly on the barrel and pull the barrel downward into the channel. This can't always be done with a type 1 band. That is why the type 2 and 3 bands are springy and have "pads" that hold the barrel firmly. The action should not move in the assembled carbine when pulled or pushed from the muzzle end. If the action is loose in the stock accuracy will suffer. In addition, some carbines are ammo sensitive and will have a specific ammo preference. I've had more than 25 different carbines over the years and have never had one that couldn't be made to shoot 3 inches or less at 100 yards. And some of them gauged 4.5 at the muzzle. A bit of attention to those details can make any carbine into a decent shooter.
When they tell you to behave, they always forget to specify whether to behave well or badly!
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Originally Posted by
Wineman
The trigger on the Carbine is combat approved but pretty much like breaking a thick twig and not so friendly when fine accuracy counts.
I'm curious what the trigger pull on that one measures? I've got one that's close to 10 lb. and the lightest one is a hair under 6 if I remember correctly. I know what you mean about how much the lighting changes things! - Bob
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Legacy Member
Trigger pull really isn't adjustable. You can try a different hammer spring and possibly find one that is a bit lighter. Sear work is not recommended since it can lead to chain firing. The heavy trigger pull is the reason that sears, hammers and hammer springs were modified in the carbine. While 6 lbs is on the light side and 10 lbs is on the heavy side, both are within the norms for carbine. They simply are not known for great trigger pulls.
When they tell you to behave, they always forget to specify whether to behave well or badly!
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Contributing Member
Thanks for all the advise guys, group learning at its very best!
I'm slowly digesting all this information and looking forward to shooting the M1A1, with a much better all round understanding of the rifle and what to expect of it when the four horsemen of the apocalypse have finally stabled their horses!
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Within reason, you can adjust the hammer spring. I have a 9mm M1carbine using cast bolts. The cast bolts get pretty well bashed after a few hundred rounds. To limit the hammer-blow, I have collapsed a few coils on the hammer spring and it actually improved TP a bit. You can’t take it too far though. Carbines were designed to shoot in all manner of conditions each and every time the trigger is pulled. A recreational gun would not necessarily require that level of reliability, but I have had no ignition issues. Hammer springs are relatively cheap to experiment with.
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I have never measured it but it passed the CMP trigger pull and weight test (4.5 lb for the trigger, 6.1 lb overall weight). Next time I have it out I'll see what it is. I had never attended a CMP games match and I expected to have a cavity search at the armorers table. Nope, a quick look and trigger check, took all of 30 seconds. I suppose if someone complained, and you had won a Maserati or Ferrari instead of a nice medal, they might do a more thorough look see. I always wondered if you leave it cocked, the hammer spring might get softer over time and make the trigger a bit lighter?
Dave
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