ALDIS Scope Survey

[lmg15]

We are making a list of Aldis sniper scopes to get a better idea of production numbers and variants. Hopefully some patterns will emerge that can shine some light on this subject that presently has a lot of unknowns. There are many things I have learned over the past couple of weeks in the other WW1 scope threads.

I have cut this down from several pages to prevent a soul crushing solid block of high density text, but the success of the survey does rely on gathering a bit of detail.

Here goes:

Along with the serial number, date and mounting information, there are a few other details we are seeking.

Most people with an Aldis scopes in their collections can usually pick the differences between the types No.1, 2, 3 and 4. Just to be clear, here is a brief description of the differences, as the No.1 and No.2 scopes are hard to pick apart. Nos 1 to 3 look the much the same from afar due to the brass three step ocular cell housing that screws onto the rear, and the No.4 which has the ocular cell housed in a conical extension of the main scope body.


No.1 scope features:
• The brass casing for the objective cell has grub screw(s) only at the rear edge and the casing has an integral sun shade.
• The range turret is comparatively flat and plain. The range knob screws down against the top of the reticule frame which is being pushed up by spring pressure.
Attachment 108836

• The focus adjustment plate is actually a sleeve that completely surrounds the scope tube.
• The focal adjustment slot is along the top of the scope tube.
• While not visible, the No.1 scope internals are largely non-interchangeable with the later scope types.

No.2 scope features:
• Looks almost identical to the No.1 scope externally, but the internals mainly different.
• Early No.2 scopes have the focal adjustment slot on top, but this was moved to the left side of the scope tube for most later No.2 and No.3 scope production.
Attachment 108835
• The ocular lens group is probably the best way to tell the difference between the No.1 and No.2 scopes. The No.2 ocular lens group casing is constructed in two parts, requiring additional grub screws on the front end of the casing to retain the screw in sun shade.
Attachment 108837

No.3 scope features:
• The No.3 scope is the same as a No.2 scope except that the range turret has been completely redesigned. It is higher with characteristic ‘notches’. Mechanically, the jacking screw actually screws into the body of the reticule frame giving positive up and down movement / retention.
Attachment 108838
• Many No.3 scopes are fitted with the new and larger diameter objective lens cell that incorporates the lateral adjustment prism. 750 of these prisms were manufactured by separate contract, so could have been fitted to new made No.3 scopes, or retrofitted to standard No.3 scopes as required. These objective cells on No.3 scopes will have no maker’s markings, as these are already on the ocular cell.
Attachment 108839
• Focal adjustment slot on the left side of the scope tube.
Attachment 108840

No.4 scope features:
• Identical to the No.3 scope, but instead of having a brass 3- step ocular cell housing, the ocular lenses are mounted at the rear of a steel cone that is integral with the scope tube.
Attachment 108841
• As a result of this, all maker’s markings for No.4 scopes are on the brass casing of the objective cell.
Attachment 108841
• While some No.4 scopes are fitted with the standard objective lens cell of the No.2 and No.3 scopes, most are fitted with a newer larger diameter objective lens cell that incorporates the lateral adjustment prism. For No.4 scopes manufactured with this new objective lens cell, the maker, scope serial number and date will be inscribed by rotary engraving tool.
• Focal adjustment slot on the left side of the scope tube.

The thing to note is that the plain scope tube is pretty much the same for the Nos.1, 2 and 3 scopes, so there is a high degree of interchangeability between the No.2 and No 3 scopes, and also the No.3 and No.4 scopes. Even the Ocular cell and tube of a No.1 scope could be adapted easily to later scope configurations.

Hence, there is a lot of latitude to post war commercial adaptations, where sub-assemblies could be readily mixed and matched between scope models, making model identification a bit more challenging. Even in Aldis's production, there is some hybrid configurations apparent.

As for mounts, the types are readily identifiable when still on the scope, but when removed, the outline of the original mounts in the scope tube blue can indicate the mount type.
Often when the scopes have been remodelled by the trade, all signs of the original mounts are often scrubbed off and the scope body re-blued. These are “No mounts- re-blued”

So basically, we would appreciate the following info:

1. Scope type - No.1, 2, 3 or 4
2. Manufacture date
3. Manufacture serial number
4. The type of mounts - Purdey, H&H, PPCo dovetail, etc
5. The rifle serial number(s) engraved on the tube and /or mounts.
6. The range graduations on the range drum. Usually 1 to 6, sometimes 1 - 10, but often blank or for smallbore ranges when recycled through the trade.
7. What type of range turret? The type on the No.1 and No.2 scopes, or the type on the No.3 and No.4 scopes?
8. Is the focal adjustment slot/plate on the top of the tube, or on the left side?
9. Any other comments, such as provenance, completeness, optical quality, reticule pattern (if not the standard horizontal line and vertical picket).
10. Any case markings, such as rifle serial numbers and broad arrows.

As always, photos that show these things would be brilliant.

ATB. D.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Roger Payne]

This could do with being made a sticky........

One minor point; in describing one of the ways to distinguish the No1 & No2 patterns, reference is made to the 'ocular' housings. Should that read 'objective'? This is an excellent discourse on distinguishing the four types of Aldis scopes encountered, reflecting a lot of personal effort, & which has certainly clarified some points for me. I hope people are encouraged to submit information on telescopes that they have in their own collections so that we may advance things further......

[lmg15]

Roger, yes, you are correct - it is the objective housing. Brains were running out of my ears by the time I condensed 4 pages to one, but I'm sure you will collectively thank me for sparing you all the unabridged version.

A sticky? Sounds good.

ATB, D.

[Roger Payne]

D. Absolutely! I should go & lie down for a while......you deserve to!

[Surpmil]

Yes, this deserves its own thread so good idea!

This photo shows us why the erector cell adjustment slot was moved to about the 10:30 position from its previous 12:00 position: so the cover plate could clear the PPCo. (Bartle?) mounts.

[Bindi2]

You have all the info in the photos of my Aldis is that already in the spread sheet or do I have to put it into print.

[Surpmil]

You have all the info in the photos of my Aldis is that already in the spread sheet or do I have to put it into print.

No, it's logged thank you!

[303 Gunner]

1. Scope type - No.1
2. Manufacture date: 1915
3. Manufacture serial number: 65923
4. The type of mounts: Purdey
5. The rifle serial number(s) engraved on the tube and /or mounts: U3035 (On the tube)
6. The range graduations on the range drum: 1 to 6
7. What type of range turret? No.1 / No.2 type
8. Is the focal adjustment slot/plate on the top of the tube, or on the left side? On top.
9. Other comments: With case. Currently mounted on 1915 RSAF Enfield Sht. LE Mk III F8180
10. Any case markings: Serial number

Attachment 108956Attachment 108953Attachment 108954Attachment 108955

[lmg15]

Many thanks 303Gunner - a beautiful example of an early Aldis in Purdey mounts. We did not have this one already, so it has added to the picture. What I can tell you is that it looks like the earliest example of Purdey mounts seen to date. Well done on obtaining it!

We are also entertaining the idea of collecting data on the PPCo scopes as well, but getting them in order is a bit more difficult as the PPCo scopes do not appear to have a factory production or serial number. The engraved rifle serial number is the best indication as to what order the scopes were fitted up, noting that many of these scopes were issued to at least two rifles. ATB, D.

[303 Gunner]

Thanks! Looking forward to seeing how everything progresses!