Snider loads

[Calum]

I have shot plenty of smokeless in my Snider as have many others. True, you can't be as brainless as you can with blackpowder (where full cases are generally safe), but if you are competent to reload smokeless in 30/06 (where mistakes can be costly), you can reload smokless for the Snider.

I posted a ton of info over on Snider-Enfield Forum - Old Guns - British Militaria Forums - Message Board - Yuku

I find that either a very few grains of a moderately fast pistol powder like Unique, or about 30.0 grs of a slow pistol powder like H4227 worked well for me.

Awesome info, thanx!

What a treat to peek back into this website and discover some great info on reloading these beasts with modern powders.
As I also have zero interst in using BP, and taking this old girl apart more then I have to.

Someday I hope I can go Deer hunting with this rifle.

[dsmc1]

Hi All
Just started shootoing my snider carbine. Tride shooting smokeless to start with (505 gr minie wiht 25 grains of IMR 4198) the powder only filled half the case, so I filled the rest with cream of wheat, but if I do that again, will place a separater wad; I think the filler filtered down thru the powder. First shot, nothing happened, but the breech was slightly warm, so it stayed pointing down range for 3 minutes. I opened it and the case was empty and the bullet had travelled 4-6 inched down the barrel (575 slug ina 590 bore equals very litle friction). was some unburned powder and cream of wheat in the bore.
I drove the slug out and reloaded; second try fired perfectly; even hit a 3 inch bull at 100 feet.
Third fired, then the fourth gave a POOF and I watched the slug fly to the cardboard target and BOUNCE OFF.
DECIDED TO GO BACK TO THE LOADING BENCH AND PULL THE REST APART.

[dsmc1]

continued....
Took them all apart and found the powder and CoW had mixed, so trashed it all. Went to 70 gr Pyrodex and it shoots great. IF I use smokeless in the future, will place a wad to separate the powder from the CoW.
Cleans up with a swab drenched in windex and a good oiling. I'm amazed that with the amount of use this carbine must have had fron external condition, the bore is pristene!

I cleaned the cases with the windex and a bore brush, but think the cardboard inserts are going to have to go, as there is no way to get residue from between them and the case walls.

By the Way, for any of you using a vibratory tumbler to clean your brass, before you spend an arm and a leg on wallnut shell or con cob media at a shooting supply store; got to the local PET STORE, where they sell the same materials for bird cage litter for a QUARTER of the price.

My next project is to make a casting of the chamber with melted sulfer powder (a Dixie Gun Works trick) to get an accurate size of the chamber, so I can decide if I need to buy or make a sizing die. The bore slugs at .590 and the necks of the once-fired cases measure .600-.603. So unless the chamber measures much more than that, I will make a neck sizing die at .600 which should work well with a .585 HB mold I just bought.

Will post any new info

[Andy]

Hi All
Just started shootoing my snider carbine. Tride shooting smokeless to start with (505 gr minie wiht 25 grains of IMR 4198) the powder only filled half the case, so I filled the rest with cream of wheat, but if I do that again, will place a separater wad; I think the filler filtered down thru the powder. First shot, nothing happened, but the breech was slightly warm, so it stayed pointing down range for 3 minutes. I opened it and the case was empty and the bullet had travelled 4-6 inched down the barrel (575 slug ina 590 bore equals very litle friction). was some unburned powder and cream of wheat in the bore.
I drove the slug out and reloaded; second try fired perfectly; even hit a 3 inch bull at 100 feet.
Third fired, then the fourth gave a POOF and I watched the slug fly to the cardboard target and BOUNCE OFF.
DECIDED TO GO BACK TO THE LOADING BENCH AND PULL THE REST APART.

The amount of IMR 4198 you used was not nearly enough to get it up to the pressure where it is designed to burn, and I think that pressure is above where you want to be with the Snider. I see that powder as just on the other side of too slow for the Snider.

I have had success with 15.0 grs of Unique and 35.0 grs of both H4227 and SR4759. Those powders will achieve about 1100 fps with that bullet and be well within its pressure limits.

I don't use filler. The Unique is not position sensitive while the H4227 and SR4759 are. For the latter, I tipped the gun vertical before each shot and that worked fine. I settled on the Unique and never changed.

[keltic0_1]

Hi

I have an 1860 iron barrel snider and use Unique shotgun powder on a regular basis.

For the load I use 12 grains of unique wadded with a quarter sheet of toilet paper and then top up to within an eigth of an inch of the top of the case with breadcrumb ( local fishing shop sells it as groundbait.) I finish with a fibre wad and a .582 500 gr lead bullet. If the barrel is worn you can go up to .590.

As I only shoot the one snider I never re-size the cases and I fit the bullet head loose.

I get absolutely fantastic results with this load - consistent 1 to 1 and a half inch groups at 100 yds.

My problem is I wish to shoot the rifle at Bisley (UK Rifle association range)this Autumn and I need a black powder load.

Anyone any details for a good load up to 500 metres ??

Best wishes Warren

[Newtire]

Has anybody done any loads for their Snider-Enfields using smokeless?

If got a couple duplex loads that I'm told work well, but I've got soooo much powder sitting around I'm looking to use some of it.
Especially some bulk canister stuff that is close to Unique. Large flake, slow burn.

I haven't fired mine yet, just doin' some research.

This pre-1900 stuff is all new to me.

Thanks.

First off, let me say what an amazing board this site is. There’s a whole lot of knowledge packed into all the forums here. So, I just want to preface my post with a giant Thank You for being here.

I realize that this post is an older post but it may benefit someone newer to the use of these Snider guns (which, as we know, are also somewhat dated.).

I found some information posted by a fellow shooter on another board who I’ve met and shot with on occasion. Him being a moderator on that board as well as an accomplished ammo loader led me to put some faith in his information.

The rifle I am shooting these out of is one of the purpose made Mk III steel barrel models which I was fortunate enough to buy thru a friend handling the estate sale of a former shooting partner of both of ours. The rifle is in exceptional condition and came with a variety of loading tools and several moulds. So, all considered, I felt safe with these loads in this particular gun. Sorry for being so long winded! So, enough already...

The load I used was 21 gr. Unique under the Accurate Arms 59-430 B. My sight setting at 50 yds. put the shots about a foot low at 100. Boy, I didn’t expect so much of a drop! They must have thought the Martini-Henry one flat shooting varmint type rifle back then. With a round ball, the loader previously mentioned had used as much as 24 gr. of Unique but I hesitate to try something that daring. I don’t think it’s a good idea trying to hot rod such a weak action and end up stretching the frame or worse. I think I’m better off keeping with something like a service load and get out one of my unmentionable guns for anything really long distance. I don’t know how those guys managed back in the old days. I guess it was an improvement over an Enfield muzzleloader!

[Bruce_in_Oz]

I have never dismantled an original Snider round, but I was wondering this:

Is the original 19th Century Snider propellant load in the form of "loose" powder or a single solid compressed "pellet"?

I ask because the not-much later .577-.450 was fueled with a single, BIG,compressed pellet in that cheesy rolled brass foil case.

The cartridge that replaced it, the Mk 1 .303 was also initially a black-powder job and ALSO used a solid compressed pellet of black powder. During the process of manufacturing the ammo, the pellet was inserted into a primed case that was essentially straight sided. There was a "glazeboard" wad on top of the pellet and this supported the bullet. THEN the case was final formed and necked, with a couple of "stab" crimps to keep the bullet mostly in place The classic thing is that with the advent of Cordite, they simply swapped out the BP pellet for a tied bundle of NC propellant sticks and everything else, including most of the manufacturing machinery, stayed more or less the same.

The past can be an interesting place, but I wouldn't want to live there.

[Sunray]

OP is from 2006.
Have a How-to for making .577-.450 out of 3/4" bar stock. Basically makes a reloadable. .45-70 chamber insert.
That "cheesy rolled brass foil case." was very early.

[green]

[QUOTE=Bruce_in_Oz;494026]I have never dismantled an original Snider round, but I was wondering this:

Is the original 19th Century Snider propellant load in the form of "loose" powder or a single solid compressed "pellet"?

I ask because the not-much later .577-.450 was fueled with a single, BIG,compressed pellet in that cheesy rolled brass foil case.

The cartridge that replaced it, the Mk 1 .303 was also initially a black-powder job and ALSO used a solid compressed pellet of black powder.

The .577" Snider and the M-H ctg were loaded with loose powder never a compressed pellet. The loose powder was loaded to give a 100% loading density.

[fjruple]

Yesterday we shot a steel barrelled MKIII that came out of Nepal. The outside looks like it has been several world wars but the rifleing is pristine. We were using 24 guage shotshells trimmed down and sized for 577 Snider with a .60 cailber round ball and with a wad to hold the powder which was Trail Boss. It was fun to shoot.