Gun show carbines

[lboos]

Went to a small antique gun show today and out of 10 carbines, 8 of them were still in the WW 2 configuration, and 2 of them were M1A1's, how did these guns skip the mod,s after WW2, no type 3 barrel bands, the eight of them still had the flip sights etc. were these carbines left overseas after the war ? are all of them fakes ? a few of them looked really good.
There were no rebuild stamps on the wood ? how would a carbine skip the rebuild after WW 2 ?
Are there any real Carbines out there that were left that way ? and how did did they get by ?
Thanks.

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[Singer B]

I was wondering the same thing reference how any could have escaped the post WW2 refurbishment. Great question and thank you for asking it. I can't wait to see the answers from the experts here.

[Woodsy]

Most of the M1 and M1A1 carbines in NZ are in the early configuration as they were souvenirs of the Pacific campaign. Quite a few of them were also 'lost' by US troops stationed in NZ during the war and given away in appreciation of organised hunting trips. How US based carbines missed post-war upgrades, I don't know. Could they have been post-war imports before the Federal importer markings were required?

[DaveHH]

They could also have been "Corrected".

[lboos]

I think you are right Dave, I would like to think of these guns as being "corrected" rather then being faked, I like the looks of the org. carbines, and they are the ones that help win WW-2.
I noticed that the carbine that Audie Murphy used in WW-2 is on display somewhere in Texas with all the post war mods. on it, looks like they would have corrected that carbine for sure, ...just a thought.

PS: Just wondering what the feeling is from the members here, is it wrong to "correct" a carbine ? or should you just leave it the way it is ? I understand the Korean and Vietnam era. and I am leaving one of my two with the mods on them. Thanks for any comments.

[browningautorifle]

It's been done for longer than one would think. Back in the '80s I needed a barrel and went to a man that bought all the carbines he could lay hands on. He stripped them to bits and separated parts, reassembled complete guns with corrected parts lists. This was back before there was too much public info on them, no internet. I remember when the ones with early features were available and they would be as released by the US gov't. I liked those, but if guys want to correct them it's fine as long as they don't try to sell them as original, which happens too much.

[jond41403]

To be honest with you, that is why I love my Mixmaster Winchester carbine. It is nowhere near"correct", but as far as I know and can tell, it is exactly in the configuration it last left whatever military role it served, which was the way the military intended it because they cared nothing about collectibility whatsoever

[Eaglelord17]

'Corrected' is faked. It is the same thing as stamping new serial numbers on a rifle to make it 'all matching', and is about the same level of honesty. American arms have this issue because people refuse to accept how they were actually used (i.e. you stripped the rifles as sections, threw the parts into a pile and cleaned then threw them back together, not to mention the constant rebuilds/refurbishments) and refuse to accept how they left service. To each their own, but in my opinion it is the destruction of history, not the preservation of it.

[Bruce McAskill]

Could they be corrected? Maybe and then again maybe not. It all depends on its history. Could have been a bring back. Could have been issued to a secondary group where they just sat in racks. Could also have been issued to a National Guard unit that just had too many and just used the updated ones with the others sitting in storage.

During rebuild the unit doing the rebuilding would run out of the new required replacements and just left what was on the carbine as is. Intent to replace it at a later date that just did not happen. The White bags are a prime example. 50% were fully rebuilt. 40% partly rebuilt with many parts changed and the 5 to 10% with no changes at all. Some officers like their carbines with the flip sight so never had it updated. There are reasons for a carbine not being corrected but still being an original.
The vast majority of carbines do not fall under any of this and have been modified back to what was thought to be original.

[DaveHH]

'Corrected' is faked. It is the same thing as stamping new serial numbers on a rifle to make it 'all matching', and is about the same level of honesty. American arms have this issue because people refuse to accept how they were actually used (i.e. you stripped the rifles as sections, threw the parts into a pile and cleaned then threw them back together, not to mention the constant rebuilds/refurbishments) and refuse to accept how they left service. To each their own, but in my opinion it is the destruction of history, not the preservation of it.

I was drafted in 1965, spent six months in the 5th Inf Div in Colorado and then on to Vietnam for a year (66-67). Basic training was at Ft Ord Calif with good Infantry Cadre. I never once heard of anyone or any group of soldiers taking their weapons apart and dumping the parts into a pile and then putting them back together. That may have occurred in some NG unit where a bunch of civilians got dressed up and played Army for 6 weeks every year, but in the real Army I never saw anything like that.