Make and model question

[Dumby]

1.I have a No.4 MkI that is stamped U.S Property. There is a large S in front of the No.4 MkI* stamp. Savage correct? I registered it and the certificate says Lee Enfield as the make. Should it say Enfield or Savage?

2.I have a P14. There is a large R on the end of the stock on the metal part. The certificate I received says B.S.A in the make section? Is the make still British Small Arms even though it's a Remington?

Are my certificates completely wrong or do I have much to learn?

Information

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[Stevo]

CFC certs/registry data aren't particularly accurate. Sometimes they list the type, the model or the manufacturer.

My LE certs all say "Lee Enfield" regardless of where it was made or the model. I don't believe BSA built the Pattern '14 but I could be wrong.

[Badger]

1.I have a No.4 MkI that is stamped U.S.Property. There is a large S in front of the No.4 MkI* stamp. Savage correct? I registered it and the certificate says Lee Enfield as the make. Should it say Enfield or Savage?

The U.S. Property marked No.4 Mk1 is an Enfield design and correctly registered as such, in the CFC database .....

In the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), you'll find a library entry for an "all matching" unfired 1943 No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (Mfg under Lend Lease Act by Savage in 1943) .... click here). Check your rifle against this one for the markings.

2.I have a P14. There is a large R on the end of the stock on the metal part. The certificate I received says B.S.A in the make section? Is the make still British Small Arms even though it's a Remington?

I'm not sure about this one. I'm a "verifier" and I can look up the RCMP database, so if you'd email me or PM (private message) the Certificate information showing the FRT number, I can check it for you, if you want.

Although I haven't had the chance to prepare an MKL entry for it yet, here's a link to a No.3 Mk1* (Pattern 1914) Enfield Serial (Mfg by Winchester) .... click here). Without pics, I'm guessing, but I assume your rifle looks like this?

Hope this helps....

Regards,
Badger

[Dumby]

The U.S. Property marked No.4 Mk1 is an Enfield design and correctly registered as such, in the CFC database .....

In the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), you'll find a library entry for an "all matching" unfired 1943 No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (Mfg under Lend Lease Act by Savage in 1943) .... click here). Check your rifle against this one for the markings.




I'm not sure about this one. I'm a "verifier" and I can look up the RCMP database, so if you'd email me or PM (private message) the Certificate information showing the FRT number, I can check it for you, if you want.

Although I haven't had the chance to prepare an MKL entry for it yet, here's a link to a No.3 Mk1* (Pattern 1914) Enfield Serial (Mfg by Winchester) .... click here). Without pics, I'm guessing, but I assume your rifle looks like this?

Hope this helps....

Regards,
Badger

Yes, my P14 looks exactly like that but it has no markings on the receiver. The model by the CFC was written down as Enfield Pattern 1914 Sporter. (Make was B.S.A.)
There is however a small 77 20 stamped on top near the barrel in front of the chamber opening. Looks pretty meaningless though. Thanks for the other links by the way I browsed them for quite some time!

[tiriaq]

Well, BSA did commercially remanufacture P-14s into sporting rifles, so there is such a rifle. But if yours is in unaltered military condition, I cannot see why it would have been so classified; except that as Stevo pointed out, the CFC is often not particularly accurate. Your mention of there being no markings on the receiver ring is puzzling. There should be markings there.
The CFC uses the terms "make" and "manufacturer" in their own special way.

[Stevo]

The CFC uses the terms "make" and "manufacturer" in their own special way.

Yes, they sure do. Any Lee-Enfield (that I own, at least) regardless of model or manufacturer is a LE on the cert. But my Factory 26 SKS is a Norinco and not a Simonov. Go figure.

[Dumby]

Well, BSA did commercially remanufacture P-14s into sporting rifles, so there is such a rifle. But if yours is in unaltered military condition, I cannot see why it would have been so classified; except that as Stevo pointed out, the CFC is often not particularly accurate. Your mention of there being no markings on the receiver ring is puzzling. There should be markings there.
The CFC uses the terms "make" and "manufacturer" in their own special way.

This must be the case with my P14, I remember the verifier over the phone telling me it was sporterised(sp?), how she came to that conclusion I don't know but it makes sense of the situation now. Thanks!
P.S. The receiver is blank and clean that is correct

[tiriaq]

After all he hoopla about the importance of accurate identification being critical to the effectiveness of the registry, the use of over the phone, sight unseen, verification is proof that the powers that be know that the thing is a joke.

[moltiv]

Yes, they sure do. Any Lee-Enfield (that I own, at least) regardless of model or manufacturer is a LE on the cert. But my Factory 26 SKS is a Norinco and not a Simonov. Go figure.

SKS stands for Samazaryadnii carabin Simonova which is Simonov's semi auto rifle. It is already say Simonov in abbreviation! Norinco is the name of Chinese factory where it was produced using Russian designs.