Shot a 1942 Maltby No. 4 Mk. 1 today.....Gads!

[togor]

You are wasting your time looking at the muzzle - it is the 1st 3" of the barrel where all 'the action' takes place - read the first paragraphs that I quoted in Post #3. A rifle that has fired cordite will be worn at the chamber end and due to the way that Nitrocelulose works the bullet will not have suffcient 'kick up the bum' to upset into the rifling.

What makes it 10x worse is the fact you have the war-time expedient 2 groove barrel.

The only way you will get any sort of accuracy is either to use the correct MKVII (not MKVIIZ) ammunition, or home-load a full-power, open ended, parallel sided 174g bullet

Yes, will check the throat on this one.

I read the 5 groove barrels are more forgiving.

[Brian Dick]

There's nothing wrong with a two-groove barrel as long as it's in spec. Much like the Springfield 1903A3 and other rifles that used them, if the two groove barrel didn't perform to the same standard, they'd have never been adopted.

[Neuraleanus]

I did not know that Maltbys used the 2-twist barrel. I thought that was reserved for Long Branches and Savages.

On the subject of ammo, I have gotten good results using PPU 174 grain FMJ. The 150 grain stuff sometimes has feeding issues.

[Brian Dick]

Both ROF Maltby and ROF Fazakerley used two groove barrels during wartime production.

[togor]

I did not know that Maltby's used the 2-twist barrel. I thought that was reserved for Long Branches and Savages.

On the subject of ammo, I have gotten good results using PPU 174 grain FMJ. The 150 grain stuff sometimes has feeding issues.

You would think!

On this day two Garands were holding the black with HXP on a SR-1, then the No 4 comes out and it wants to shoot a 15" circle. Gotta figure it out. Sometimes that is fun, sometimes not.

If nothing else a specimen from that period right after the main peril had passed, while busy replacing as quickly as possible the many rifles left for Uncle Adolph.

[Alan de Enfield]

There's nothing wrong with a two-groove barrel as long as it's in spec. Much like the Springfield 1903A3 and other rifles that used them, if the two groove barrel didn't perform to the same standard, they'd have never been adopted.

According to PL the Savage rifles that were sent for No4T conversion were either rejected or had their barrels replaced as the two-groove was not acceptable for conversion.

[Roger Payne]

That is true, but as is often the case what happened in practice wasn't always what the rules dictated! I have owned several Savage Mk1* T's that bore 2 groove tubes, & still do have one. They all had been scoped up as well, so I wonder if they were set up in the dark early days & just slipped through the net, either by accident or because we just needed functional rifles so badly. (As Brian intimates, a good 2 groove barrel will shoot as well as a 5 groover). The scope serials were all lowish suggesting they were converted early, rather than having, say, Mk3 scopes fitted later on.

[Brian Dick]

Alan, You're talking sniper rifle conversions not service rifles. The No.4T sniper rifle required five groove barrels as that was the standard set for conversion. As Roger says, some two groove barrels slipped through which would be a relaxation of standards. Solid foresight blocks also slipped through as a relaxation of standards. You guys with L42 rifles need to look mat the left hand locking lugs on the bolts where you will find it's been surface ground flat on the bottom a few thou to make up for worn bodies. That was also a relaxation of standards. The explanation for rifles made in the 40's, (mostly 1944), is that there was a war on. The biggest problem I've encountered with both sniper and service Savage rifles, (H&H obviously did too), is bound barrels. Stocking up the forends correctly was imperative. Guessing some of the original birch was not up to snuff or the folks assembling the rifles needed more practice. I've had several serial number matching Savage No.4T rifles over the years with British walnut replacement forends.

As far as togor's rifle, if it's in the condition he states and the barrel is in spec, correct ammo, a good servicing and tune up will probably cure his accuracy problem. Ask me how I know!

[togor]

So....

Pulled a Prvi 174 BTFMJ bullet. Soldered a AWG12 length of wire to the base.

Marked the insulation using rim as base reference mark (taken from a live round).

Added additional ticks every 0.200" on the insulation.

On this Maltby the projectile engages the rifling at about 0.170" beyond case.

My other No 4. is a M47C Mk 1 (T). For reference it engages at about 0.220" beyond reference.

Do these readings represent cordite-torched throats for such rifles?

Some Garand barrels came with 0.200" worth of room brand new.

I'm guessing this Maltby does not have a torched throat and just needs the right bullet and load for this screwy rifling.

Plus checking how the forend sits against the recoil lug.

[Brian Dick]

Seems like it's in spec. Do yourself a favor and read Peter Laidler's articles on forend fitting a few times before you dive in. It's in his list of articles on this site. Never pry down on the front of the forend if it's tight. Tap it straight down gently at the rear using a piece of soft pine on the ledges under the rear sight. There is no recoil lug on a No.4. You'll see where the sear lugs contact the draws in the forend. Prying down from the front will destroy them. Give the wood a good drink of raw linseed oil too while you're at it without letting it build up in the bearings.