Has anyone seen this before? - Barrel to receiver weld.

[kcw]

One more issue with those Receiver/Barrel welds.

When I encountered my AL M-1's, I found all the rear handguards cracked. I stripped, glued, and refinished. When I went to reinstall, when they hit the weld (on the first one), re-cracked. I had to take a file and file down the welds to flush with the barrel before the handguard would seat. In a sense, this almost removed all the external welds. Probably could have pulled the barrel at this point.

Just something you guys with those "found" AL and VFW Garands need to check.

In a number of cases the above mentioned welding interfers with the op rod. The remedy is the same. Additonally, some of the M-1's so modified will have op rod tips of below minimum diameter. It makes sense that such would be ultilized as the rifles were intended to be used as straight pull bolt guns anyway.

[Devil Dog]

Most of the ceremonial rifles/barreled receivers had blank firing devices and therefore were certainly set up to fire semi-automatic. If they were intended to be "straight pull" rifles there would be no need for a BFD. Also many ceremonials were straight from rebuild with new barrels and parts. At the time these were issued, there was no need to issue "inferior" guns. They still needed to function well. I have seen many barrels on these guns gage "new" and I'll guess that they have had only one proof bullet through the bore. I also can't think of one reason the barrels were welded to the receivers.

[Joe W]

True, the current "Ceremonials" do come with a BFD and function semi-auto. The earlier "Ceremonials", the ones with the welded gas cylinder locks and the valve removed, could only operate as a single shot rifle. As I said in my other post, the welds were to prevent the user from simply replacing the gas cylinder lock screw and returning the rifle to semi-auto. If the barrel was not welded to the receiver the barrel, gas cylinder, lock and screw could be removed as a unit and replaced. Hence, the reason for the barrel to receiver weld, at least the only reason I can think of. Semper Fi, Joe

[Jim K]

That welding was done before the rifles were loaned to the veterans' organizations. They were not meant to destroy the rifle, but to keep it from being made to fire live ammo without the alteration being obvious. The small tack welds I have seen, and that looks like one of them, should not create any danger. Of more import is the question of barrel condition, as most of those rifles were fired with corrosive primed blanks and couldn't be cleaned.

Anyone getting one through CMP should make sure to retain the papers so there is no doubt about the legality. Some vets' organizations forgot that the rifles were loaners and sold them or gave them to members, not realizing that they thus became stolen goods.

Jim

[kilroy]

I have a cerimonial rifle and have been messing around with it for a month now. I filed the weld off of the barrel and receiver, cut the gas lock off and replaced it. I took it to a gun smith who was able to pull the barrel. He told me the barrel gauged new. I sprayed some flat black on cardboard and then used a brush to apply on the weld. I did this as a temporary measure and will cold blue later. You can't even tell where the weld is anymore. The rifle had many new old stock parts including the op rod. The only problem I am having with it is that it shoots to the right about 6 inches from point of aim. I don't know what the problem is as of yet. The front sight is hanging over slightly. It does shoot well now that I have it sighted in. I am going to swap stocks and see if it is a stock problem that is causing the rifle to shoot so far right. I am also going to swap barrels and see if the barrel is bent or if the weld caused enough heat to warp the reciever. I will keep everyone posted as to what I find out about this problem.


Since I started messing with mine, I also started working on my uncles. His has a barrel that has never seen a live round. It had park in the barrel. It had the same problems-Weld on the barrel, messed up gas tube. I filed the weld off the barrel reciever and replaced the gas tube. You can't see where the weld is on that rifle either. I just got back from the range and his shoots very well.
A note about using a file. It took longer to file the weld off the barrel reciever. One thing I like about using a file is that I had more control. I knew exactly when I had filed through the weld and started to get into harder metal. The file wouldn't even cut it-even though the metal had been welded before. It has not weakened anything as far as I can tell.

[Devil Dog]

"The only problem I am having with it is that it shoots to the right about 6 inches from point of aim. I don't know what the problem is as of yet."

When M1's require excessive windage adjustment, the first place to look is Barrel Indexing. Since your gunsmith removed and replaced your barrel I would check the index. Many good gunsmiths don't understand M1 barrel indexing.

[kilroy]

Barrel indexing was the first thing he checked. Originally, we thought the barrel was bad due to blanks. When he put the wrench on the barrel, the barrel spun right off. He then relized the barrel gauged new and re-installed the barrel. He works on a lot of Garands and owns several. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to let me know. I am going out to shoot today and I am going to swap the stock to see if that makes a difference. I will keep you posted.

[Joe W]

That welding was done before the rifles were loaned to the veterans' organizations. They were not meant to destroy the rifle, but to keep it from being made to fire live ammo without the alteration being obvious. The small tack welds I have seen, and that looks like one of them, should not create any danger. Of more import is the question of barrel condition, as most of those rifles were fired with corrosive primed blanks and couldn't be cleaned.

Anyone getting one through CMP should make sure to retain the papers so there is no doubt about the legality. Some vets' organizations forgot that the rifles were loaners and sold them or gave them to members, not realizing that they thus became stolen goods.

Jim

Jim - The welds did not keep the rifle from firing a live round, only from firing semi auto. Also, any vets organization that "forgot the rifles were loaners" would be looking for big trouble. When the organization receives the rifles from the U.S. Army (TACOM), the commander must sign a notorized affidavit accepting responsibility for safeguarding the rifles. Each new commander of the post, upon taking office, assumes responsibility for all Post property. Every 3 years the commander must submit a sworn statement to the Dept. of the Army indicating that the organization is still performing ceremonial duties and that they wish to retain the rifles. I do not believe a post commander would allow these rifles, that are in his trust ,to be "sold or given to members". I do know, first hand, that 15 or 20 years ago things were somewhat lax but I can assure you that things have now tightened up quite a bit.

[Devil Dog]

I'm sure what Joe says is true in theory, but do you really think, at this time, there is someone in the Dept. of the Army that is concerned about M1 Garands that the Army has loaned to veteran organizations 30 to 40 years ago?

[Calif-Steve]

The Army does have an inspection program. Most VFW Posts do not realize that they are subject to "visits".