On the Range with 1903's

[Texasflyboy]

After reviewing LTC Brophy's book I think the second rifle may be a Winchester Type I sniper rifle. If so it would date the photo to circa 1922.

If you can date the photo to circa 1922, then I would ask:

1. How many USMC bases in the continental USA existed in 1922? What were the geographic locations of same? By process of elimination, eliminate those bases that are known to not fit the profile of the photo (topography, flora, etc...)

2. How many 1,000 yard military rifle ranges existed at that time? Cross reference against #1.

That should narrow the suspects to less than 10, maybe less than 5 locations that might fit the photo.

My .02

[Bolo Badge]

Using the maxium magnification available to me I can make out what I believe to be the words "National Brass" and "Hastings" on the ammunition box seen in the foreground. Using "Google" I find that there was a "National Brass and Copper Tube Company" in Hastings-on-the-Hudson, NY. They were a major supplier of ammunition during WWI. They are noted in "Hatcher's Notebook" as being the maker of the ammuniton being used when a few low numbered M1903 rifles failed.

[Wyo96]

Nice game we're playing here. Based off of their riding boots and what Jim pointed out as being mesquite trees (Southwest USA), I would say it's a cavalry unit in Texas maybe...

[Jim Tarleton]

This is a second photo taken of the same firing line and shooters as the 1st photo. We think the range may be Camp Dix, but we are not certain.

This photo shows the 2nd rifleman's rifle from a better vantage point. It is an S stock, two bolt rifle with no handguard, a long barrel with no finish or front sight, a mounted Winchester A5 scope on Marine bases and in #2 mounts, and what appears to be some odd trigger attachment which isn't crystal clear in this low resolution photo. There is a pad attached to the bottom of the stock grip, and something attached to the trigger guard or trigger.

The 1st soldier has a second rifle not obvious in the first photo. It is beneath the ammo box to his right. It has a Winchester A5 scope mounted on it also. I find it very odd that he would treat the rifle in this manner.

The second photo is a poor resolution crop showing the 2nd shooter's rifle.

Comments welcomed.

Jim

[gunner]

Hi Jim, thought this pic is alittle better but it seems not so.

Regards

Gunner

[Jim Tarleton]

Gunner,

I was hoping someone could tell me what kind of trigger attachment that is. The original picture doesn't have enough resolution to isolate it clearly. I looked at it in alternate colors, and it appears to have something like a watch fob hanging from the trigger.

I don't quite grasp the block under the grip's purpose. Maybe one of the dedicated paper punchers or collectors of weird trigger attachments (I wonder who might that be, heh Gary?) might weigh in.

I think those first two shooters might have been serious competitors. I also think their scopes may be Stevens scopes. The second shooter is wearing shades!

Jim

[gunner]

Jim,
the wood piece on the rifle seems to me that he mount this becuase he has larger hands. If you take a look at his hand on the forestock you can see that the hand is not the smallest. That with the watch fob can be it in deed.
I read about target shooting a while ago and there the author (?) wrote, that he used a cord with a woodend piece to pull the trigger because it will be more evenly than pull with the finger.

[rollins74]

From a scan of the original photo from Bolo Badge, here are some details of the pad on the stock grip and the object below the trigger guard.

[Jim Tarleton]

Second shooter's rifle:

1. Full length S stock
2. Cut down grip area with block attached
3. "Watch fob" is due to rifle shadow, nothing attached to trigger
4. Winchester A5 scope in Marine mounts, with rear base on front receiver bridge (7.2" spacing)
5. Barrel appears to be longer than 24.2" and unfinished
6. Shooter is wearing shades (cool and safe)
7. Stock may be a single bolt, as I can't detect a front bolt
8. Only rear band is attached, no front band
9. Appears to be US Army Infantry
10. Shooting from 1000 yard marker
11. MAY be Camp Dix, NJ

Comments?

Jim

[rollins74]

The location could well be Camp Dix, NJ. Another photo in this group indicates that it was taken at Camp Dix. In the opinion of a Texas A&M horticulture professor, none of the trees in the background appear to be mesquites.

Using measurements of the second shooter's rifle (from scanned photo) relative to the dimensions of my own M1903, I calculate the overall length of his rifle to be 6.5 inches longer than a standard '03 rifle. Assuming standard stock length (from triggerguard to buttstock, at least), that would make the barrel length approximately 30.5 inches.

Calculations:
My rifle: 43.375" (overall length) and 14" (top corner of buttstock to middle of bolt handle base)
Shooter #2's rifle: 228 mm (overall length) and 64 mm (top corner of buttstock to middle of bolt handle base)
Shooter #2's rifle overall length = (14/64)(228) = 49.875"