WWII M12 markings question

[westgard]

I have attached a picture of the U.S. and flaming bomb markings on a blued WWII M12 trench gun. I am wondering if these are legitimate markings? My question has to do specifically with the 'shape' of the grooves, they appear to be "V" shaped. If you look at page 129 of Canfield's book (updated), the markings are more "U" shaped, actually I would even say "|_|" shaped. The markings on my factory parked example follow the look of Canfield's, as do a few others that I have observed. I will try to get mine out of the safe tonight and post a nice close-up of it's markings for comparison. Any opinions? Just curious...

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[Chuckindenver]

they look ok to me..no chatter marks from a stylist, unless they used a EDM..
but thats pretty doubtful.

[westgard]

Here's a picture of the equivalent markings from a parked example. The picture is not the best, but you can notice the difference. Are these both correct? This type is what I have seen in other examples, both blued and parkerized.

[leswad]

Here is my M12 parkerized stamp.

[Tom Doniphon]

What's the serial number of the blued gun in question? And does it have all the other characteristics of a Model 12 trench gun?

[jmoore]

Stamps do wear, changing from a sharp "v" shape to a more rounded shape, and, ultimately, plumb flat faced.

Who was in charge of stamp inspections anyway? Just a suspicion, but I can imagine a gov't bureau...

[westgard]

Tom,
Here is the link to the gun:
http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...=48&iid=251225
To me, it's legit, but I'd like your thoughts on it. I do have issues with the "grading" of it - for example it appears that the finish on the handguard, while certainly all there, it is somewhat mottled, and perhaps even flaking off on the right front, and the finish on the magazine tube has different shades (lighter and flatter, and then the higher glossy). Hard to tell with the pictures... It's all an academic exercise to me, I am trying to learn more by looking, this piece is way above my pay grade!
Anyway, would like to see what others think of this....

[Tom Doniphon]

It looks like a very nice Model 12 trench gun. It's in the correct serial number range and appears to have all the proper features for a M12 trench. The mottled look to the heat shield may just be oil or silicone that has not been wiped off completely. Only additional photos or a hands on inspection will tell for sure.

I think RIA sold one of these about a year ago for something like $9,000+.

[westgard]

Yes, I do remember that one! While this one above is very nice, that one was pretty near perfect.....whoever bought that one, got a beauty, but also paid dearly!

So, what do you think of the bluing on the magazine tube, is that due to lighting during photography, pretty hard to tell without seeing it in front of you...

[Tom Doniphon]

The photos are not good enough to really tell the condition of the mag tube or the other wear and thinning that they mention in the gun's description. Need more photos to better evaluate the condition.

There's burnishing around the ord bomb mark and the Winchester proof on the barrel. And there's a nice thumbprint at the corner of the ejection port. Both are usually an indication of original finish.

The buttstock is described as having an oil finish. But it's actually a varnished stock with a flute in the comb which is correct for this gun. The oiled finish buttstock was the last type Winchester used on the Model 12 trench. It was unfluted. These are mostly found on the parkerized guns, but I've got a blued one that has this late type stock.

Only a hands on inspection will tell for sure if it's all original. But even from the limited pics it looks like a nice example.

Does RIA offer inspection periods? Or do you have to do that prior to bidding?