Scout Mount

[milprileb]

I always like his comments but the best were about 16 months ago when he was having tooth aches and really did low level napalm drops. Since then, he merely straffs the page.

[Griff Murphey]

Now be easy on me... I was only an old Gravel Cruncher Mud Marine loaner dentist from the Navy... didn't mean to cause any toothaches (altho I guess I have.... just by being there!)

[John Kepler]

Napalm?

FWIW. I was interested enough in the initial Scout Rifle concept that I built one on an old Mauser action I had kicking around. I came to the same conclusion that Gale McMillan did as a result of that rifle....it may make sense to a pistol shooter, but not to a rifle shooter...yes, even those with scopes!

Also, I'm just a dumb old comp shooter, but I have never seen ANYTHING that you clamped on a barrel do anything good for how it shot. On a Garand, all the the available "Add-On" Scout Mounts will do is maybe let you see what your rifle can no longer hit! That's not exactly an even trade!

[Larry Gibson]

I'm an old rifle shooter (competition to, with M14/M1A) and a pistol shooter. While I never agreed with Cooper that the Scout was the end all of rifles it certainly does have it's place and in that place it is very useful. There are a lot of poorly put together "scouts" that many have negative opininions on. Mostly because they were put together wrong and then used wrong. I currently have 3 Scout rifles and have used numerous others. I have shot out one M1A barrel set up as a Scout rifle with SA's mount. Yes the SA mount fits right onto a milspec M14 barrel. It also comes with the modified handguard (at least mine did many years ago). Once mounted and with a Burris or Leupold Scout scope on it it worked fine. Accuracy was better because I could aim better. It also was a very "quick" set up as no cheek piece was needed on the stock and the field of view was almost unobstructed. I also used an EOTec on it with excellent results. I never had any of the "heat" problems that many hypothesize about. Since shooting that barrel out I put the mount on a FR8 and it works great there also. When that barrel is shot out the SA mount will go back on my rack grade M1A and probably stay there. I definatel like the Scout rifle concept and if one wants fast using optics on an M1A then it is the way to go.

If you decide to get the SA scout mount. Install it correctly and use a Leupold or Burris scope in low Weaver Tip Off rings. The problem with many dot and reflex sights is they mount too high. This causes you to need a cheek pad or have to search for the sight. This slows you daown and denegrates the maint feature of the scout...it's speed and accuracy of use. I found the EOTec to be about as high as I would want. The Burris Fast Fire may very well be another excellent choice, small and low.

As you can probably tel I like Scout rifles, properly made ones anyway. I also really like the SA scout mount on an M1A with the Leupold, Burris scout scopes or the EOTec. I still use regular scopes on many rifles but if one wants a very fast handling, optic sighted rifle that is "practical" then an M1A with a correct scout scope setup is difficult to beat.

Larry Gibson

[TDH]

I have the Scout model by SA (18") barrel with the factory scout mount at this time I have an NC Star 2-7X pistol scope on it. With my tired old eyes I shoot 5" groups at 100. My buddy with good young eyes brought that down to 1 1/2". I have the CMP mount on a M1 conversion with a 2-7X pistol scope sold under the NRA logo. I have see through rings on both so I can use the iron sights if neccesary.

[Griff Murphey]

Whoops. Just reread above thread and NOW realize what went on. When I read this this morning at 6 AM I thought Milpreb was dropping a dime on ME. IMHO John Kepler is in actuality pretty knowledgeable altho at times a bit sharp speaking his mind. I did NOT agree with Milpreb's dime and should not have thanked him... Sorry to all for the confusion. I thought it referred to me. As John Cleese says: "Sorry! Sorry!"

Now that THAT's settled: John, the CMP Scout mount DOES work very well. It has more gussets than Aunt Fanny's corset. And it ain't movin' one bit.

[John Kepler]

The mount moving per se isn't the problem...a bayonet doesn't move much either....but it DOES adversely effect the "return-to-zero" and the overall accuracy of the rifle, not to mention moving the POI by a ton and adding a layer of complexity the rifle really doesn't require.

As for the rest...I never said the Scout doesn't work...I said I built one, just that it conveys little or no improvement over more "conventional" configurations, at least not for me. At the end of the day...it just another "solution searching for a problem to solve"!

[milprileb]

Not a dime: I merely meant that Kepler was a bit sharper on his humor with the tooth ache.

He shoots so I take note of what he says. There is a lot experience in what he writes.

[Larry Gibson]

John

I always do like your quippy little guotes; especially this time when you use one of Coopers own to criticise his concept.

At bayonet ranges (when a boyonet is attached) any adverse affect on zero is negligeable with the M1/M14 and M16 rifles. It is also negleable with the M1903/M1917/most all Mausers/ the SMLE and the AK and SKS. Even with the MN the affect is of little concern if it comes down to "fixing Boyonets". I know because I have accuracy tested all of them with and without the bayonet. Also when the bayonet is removed the rifle does return to it's original zero.

Back to the scout mount question. Not everything that works for one person works for all. In the case of scout rifles that should be obvious because many like them and find them useful and many don't as in yourself. My experience is that when a person, even those from the "i don't like" camp, try a correctly made scout they end up liking it. The problem is the abomonations that are assembled out there that are refered to as "scout" rifles. Now I am not saying your scout rifle was an abomonation but almost always when I read of a "Mauser scout" rifle being made a commercial scout mount was used that was afixed to the rear sight base. I'm not sure if that is what you did but if it was it put the sight way too high. A scout scope mounted too high is indeed not any better than most conventional scope mounting.

BTW; over half of the scopes I've seen mounted conventionally are either too high, too far back or both. This means the shooter, when the rifle is shouldered, moves his head up, down or back and forth to get proper eye relief. One should not have to do that with a properly mounted scope of conventional or scount mounting. When the rifle is shouldered and the stock weld taken the field of view should be right there without any movement of the head searching for it.

Now I will say that my rifles with 1.5 - 2.5X scopes properly mounted conventionally and properly are just as quick as a scout scope when used on a fixed target that is plain to see. However the scout has a definate advantage quickly locating the target and defining it as it is much easier to use both eyes with the scout scope, especially the 1.5Xer scout. It is also much easier, with the scout, to engage moving targets for the same reason.

I should note for other readers here that just picking up a scout to use will not give "instant" success. It will feel odd and uncomfortable if you are really used to conventional scopes. It will take a bit of use to get used to it. This is easily accomplished by several sessions of "snapping in" and aiming at various targets. This is with a cleared rifle of course! Then whn transitioning to a live fire session the value of the scout is readily apparent.

As I have said; I do not ascertain that the scout rifle is the "end all" rifle. I do still use many rifles with conventionally mounted scopes and with irons sights. I also do not adhere to the size and weight limitations of the scout rifle as proffered by Cooper. I do however find the scout scope, when properly mounted, to be benificial on many rifles.

Larry Gibson