ZF paranoia

[tbonesmith]

Hi Guys,

before commenting further on this thread and doing this whole dance again, can people please revise the following threads:
marking on Enfields?
ZF markings - again
Lee Enfield shooting question

And all these DP threads too: Military Surplus Collectors Forums

And PLEASE read and digest all that information, and then come back to this thread if you have something new to ask or comment to make. As far as I can see this topic has been done to death and all opinions and points of view are covered in previous threads.

Cheers

[Enfield Novice]

And PLEASE read and digest all that information, and then come back to this thread if you have something new to ask or comment to make. As far as I can see this topic has been done to death and all opinions and points of view are covered in previous threads.

Alrighty I do have a question and a comment.
I have wandered through the myriad posts and threads on the topic as directed and leaving aside the emotional outbursts, closed threads and cut and paste answers I found it to be an experience that increased my knowledge of the subject but I felt like I went in a great big circle and disappeared up my own…Where the sun don't shine. Along the way it seemed that there was a lot of hard factual data buried in there that would benefit from being collated into a form that could be printed out and stuffed in the back pocket when going to pawn shops and gun shows. Here on the space coast of Florida the Enfields and Enfield experts are pretty sparse and since rifles can be found at yard sales and gun shows in all kinds of shape a consolidated list would be a great tool and might save a life. When I learned of the ZF marking I passed that data along to the owner of a pawnshop where I have bought Enfields before. He was very glad of the knowledge so that he would not take in or sell condemned rifles. I have noticed in wading through the posts that most of the questions that so irritate here come from the USA. There are a lot of newbies (me included ) just starting to appreciate these rifles here so you can bet the same old questions will keep coming. Also I don't believe that the US Troops were issued Enfields so not too much "tribal knowledge" abounds. So perhaps pointing to an informative sticky full of facts might be a great thing. I do appreciate the forum and the information and experience that dwells here. After 50 years of restoring Fender Guitars and MG Cars I find a great satisfaction in passing on that experience and knowledge to new generations and I am sure that many of the contributors here feel the same about Enfields. Most people come looking for hard facts that can influence a purchase so perhaps the consolidated "Idiots Guide" would be a great help and remove the repetition. It might also save a life. It's just a thought. Thanks again.

[Brian Dick]

Yes Peter, I did get quite an education about a couple of my own prized rifles didn't I! Both have been retired. One can be repaired but I haven't made the time to do it. The other is what it is, is well marked with the dreaded ZF although the "F" was covered with a big splotch of yellow paint that ran down the side of the stock when it was surplused in the 1960's. The markings will remain on there as it's just another day in the history of the weapon and I won't fire it anymore.

[Surpmil]

Where the rifle mine, or potentially mine, the first thing I would look at is the woodwork. Does the butt match the forestock in all those different ways that it might, or might not? Does the butt appear to have been on the rifle for a good long time? Is there dirt and 'crud' in all the right places?

A 1945 Long Branch, in the condition that one appears to be in, one would not expect to be "ZF" unless it has suffered some accident or abuse, and on the basis of one photo it's hard to tell much.

[Frederick303]

I do not have anything that might help except I have a No 2 MK iV rifle that has been match tuned and heavily modified, so I rather expect it was not done in service. In any case the buttstock is a modified No 4 wood one with the NO 4 buttplate, complete with safety cut, which bears on the right hand side of the stock a sanded out ZF marking. It is a late beech wood stock, and you can just make out it was stamped if you look in the right light you can see a faint stain lines, the impress seems to have been sanded out.

In any case that says to me that there were some rifles that were pulled down and the wood sold off, or that folks out in the real world reused these bits.

[breymac]

I have read the threads listed earlier in this post but still have a question that I hope is not out of line. I recently purchased a 1918 BSA that has a stock with no markings at all. I expect that it has been refinished and all of this ZF talk has me concerned that it might be. Is there anything that I can look for to be suspicious of? Secondly, does anyone know of a gunsmith in the northern Indiana/southern Michigan area that is competent regarding SMLE's? Thanks.

[Brian Dick]

I know of one in South Carolina.

[Cold_Zero]

A sticky on the topic would be a benefit to the community - with the words "Required Reading"

A friend's father had a 1942 Long Branch that he purchased in the late 60s / early 70s IRC, from a local hardware store, picked one from the barrel, paid the cashier and you were in business. He took the odd deer with it and when the friend reached the teen years he brought the rifle out a couple times. After 20 years and lot of on-line study, I examined the rifle again and discovered it was “DP” stamped. YIKES!

A lot has changed since then but the awareness is still lacking amongst the general population of milsurps owners.

[Brian Dick]

Most don't realize that most of the Lees sold off and surplused to North America prior to 1968 were culled from service because something was out of specification, (gauges don't lie), or they had become totally obsolete in service. The rifles imported from Britain and the Commonwealth after the big sell off programs in the mid to late 1980's are the cream of the crop because all were stored in reserve stores, had passed the gauging standards and were ready to go for the next big conflict. Interarms had rifles directly from the disposals unit at Donnington. I always chuckle to myself at the collectors who strive to find rifles without the dreaded post '68 import marks, (USA), when the fact is they are most likely much better rifles all the way around.