Arnhem

[Simon P]

Not ever heard that.........and I'd be astonished if it were true, as given that virtually none of the kit taken in, came out, they would have been captured by the Germans.

Some of them went in with M1 Carbines though.

Has the operation taken place a month or two later, they might have gone in with No.5's instead of No.4's as well.

Peter Laidlers book "Guns of Dagenham" page 56 mentions some may have been taken to Arnhem, mentions Serial No's 067, 070 & 072

[Gil Boyd]

Hi Guys,
From a Parachute Regiment Museum perspective, this question comes up fairly regularly. We have to deal with facts.

The South Staffs were apparently supposed to have taken 100 with them on Operation Market Garden. I can conclusively state at the time of the commencement of the Operation there were non manufactured.
There is no mention on STICK lists we hold or QM weaponry taken. We also hold the German lists of weapons seized on the operation, which were often tested by them if they saw anything new.
Only three (3) prototypes were produced in October 1944 and remained at the Airborne Forces Development Centre, Salisbury Plains.

The myth, which is what it was, stems from one of a large number of inaccuracies from the book THE PARAS - BRITISH AIRBORNE FORCES 1940-1984 by Gregor Ferguson released by Osprey-Elite series publishers.

[Peter Laidler]

Patchett guns weren't taken to Arnhem. There were only 3 guns available at the time and they were at the ABF experimental Establishment. David Howroy always told me that Patchett always used to 'imply' that they were used in action there - but he was a salesman, trying to sell his own wares....., as he put it kindly!

As for the picture (above) of the curved magazine, I say no more.......

Maybe Patchetts at Arnhem ought to be put into the same category as religion and politics. Not discussed at dinner or in ones Mess, Lodge or Common Room for fear of causing upset! (Along with those other similar no-no's. Such as Waterless coolant and silicone brake fluid in your car)

[Gil Boyd]

or...................................the 48 Spitfires buried in their crates in the Philipines during the Second World War that are still there and waiting to be discovered.
Thanks Peter says it all and corroborates our Regimental Museum facts at Duxford.

[GeeRam]

Such as Waterless coolant and silicone brake fluid in your car)

So, true.

[Flying10uk]

mentions some may have been taken to Arnhem

I believe that there are several books, out there, that suggest this but don't know of any producing a photo to prove it.

[Surpmil]

And carrying a different Sten, or is the fore-grip removable?

[CINDERS]

Not sure on the different Sten as the pictures may not have been in the same time frame as he is wearing totally different kit in the smaller pic plus in the heat of battel weapons can get shot out of your hands so he procured another!

Some trivia;
I worked with a WWII vet when I was farming he became a POW of the Germans and said his 303 rifle was shot out of his hands just prior to his capture, of his confinement he said little except being one night caught outside the wire stealing potatoes.
The guard said don't ever let me catch you outside again or I'll have to shoot you, and with that John went back with stuffed pockets for his hut never again did he go outside........

[Flying10uk]

The guard said don't ever let me catch you outside again or I'll have to shoot you

The guard had to really say that as it wasn't a "holiday camp" and he didn't want to get in trouble himself. Who knows if he actually would have carried out his threat.

[Surpmil]

Not sure on the different Sten as the pictures may not have been in the same time frame as he is wearing totally different kit in the smaller pic plus in the heat of battle weapons can get shot out of your hands so he procured another!

.....

Was wondering about that: no helmet visible in the smaller photo either. Not that there weren't some spares around as the operation progressed I suppose.