54R Bren Issues

[AmEngRifles]

Hope it is acceptable to post this?

Omega Weapons Systems (520) 889-8895

Seems like a good price, especially considering that no more are coming in.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Peter Laidler]

The problem with carrying handles wasn't the removal or replacement of the assembly from the barrel but the removal of the wood handle part. It was the zillion TPI nut that was the problem. As apprentices we used the official stupid tool of course and it was easy to tip the nut and cause it to cross thread on the stem. As apprentices we were told that we could only commit then heinous cross threading crime once as thereafter, it was deemed negligence on our part and we would have to pay for the damage. It was a complete load of twaddle of course but it made you think twice when repeatedly stripping and assembling.

Out in the real world we just copied the carrying handle forked screwdriver from our elders which held the nut square! I seem to remember that the handle only came from Ordnance as the stem (27 or 30) and fittings as an assembly. But in case you needed any of the individual components, you always had a load of loose parts in the tray. The Mk1 wood handle part always got a complete battering so they were slightly turned down to Mk1 spec to use the smaller dia end plate which solved the problems

I understand that the complete carrying handle assemblies are readily available in the US

[browningautorifle]

They seem to have a bit of everything there.

[Vincent]

Yes, I will tell the builder that.

I hope the trials go well. It would be nice not to have to look at the bolt next. Let us know how it goes.

[Peter Laidler]

I agree with BAR (thread 265). That way you can ream to EXACTLY what you want/need it to be.

The strange part about this saga is that it did work and function correctly using brass cased ammo! I realise that that isn't the point but none the less, it's a fact!

[djandj]

I agree with BAR (thread 265). That way you can ream to EXACTLY what you want/need it to be.

The strange part about this saga is that it did work and function correctly using brass cased ammo! I realise that that isn't the point but none the less, it's a fact!

Yep. Which makes it all the more confusing since if it were ONLY a head spacing issue, the brass shouldn't have fixed the problem. But it did. Furthermore, changing barrels to Vince's barrel also didn't change the HS either, yet so far no gas explosions. So.... maybe just the barrel cut wrong and NOT a HS issue?

[TactAdv]

Have you thought to measure the rim thickness of the several different ammunition choices you have used??

I've found considerable differences in "identical" calibers in the rim thickness over the years in various cartridges.

A couple thousandths of differing rims would effect headspace.....

Just one more data point to document/investigate.

-TomH

[Joe H]

Yep. Which makes it all the more confusing since if it were ONLY a head spacing issue, the brass shouldn't have fixed the problem. But it did. Furthermore, changing barrels to Vince's barrel also didn't change the HS either, yet so far no gas explosions. So.... maybe just the barrel cut wrong and NOT a HS issue?

Djandj,

You still don't understand HS. When you changed barrels you decreased the HS by the depth of the recess that was cut by the reamer in your previous barrel. It had nothing to do with the depth of the notch. The notch depth below the rim is the same no matter how deep the recess is. The cutting ears on the reamer "that shouldn't be there" cut the 54r rim diameter and can be used for small adjustments for fitting a new barrel that needs a little more HS.

You did have different problems with the brass cases. The case solid head may be longer than the steel like the .303, you don't know.

The big number you haven't posted is with the bolt on the stops, not on the case head as you posted, what is the distance between the case head & bolt face. It can't be checked with a feeler gage. You don't know "Sh--T" about the headspace on your Bren until the bolt face can rest on the case head or a proper HS gage.

You may have just decreased HS enough to eliminate blowouts. I didn't say correct HS.

Read browningautorifle's comment above.

Get a gunsmith, who knows what he is looking at, evaluate your rifle.

Joe

[djandj]

Djandj,

You still don't understand HS. When you changed barrels you decreased the HS by the depth of the recess that was cut by the reamer in your previous barrel. It had nothing to do with the depth of the notch. The notch depth below the rim is the same no matter how deep the recess is. The cutting ears on the reamer "that shouldn't be there" cut the 54r rim diameter and can be used for small adjustments for fitting a new barrel that needs a little more HS.

You did have different problems with the brass cases. The case solid head may be longer than the steel like the .303, you don't know.

The big number you haven't posted is with the bolt on the stops, not on the case head as you posted, what is the distance between the case head & bolt face. It can't be checked with a feeler gage. You don't know "Sh--T" about the headspace on your Bren until the bolt face can rest on the case head or a proper HS gage.

You may have just decreased HS enough to eliminate blowouts. I didn't say correct HS.

Read browningautorifle's comment above.

Get a gunsmith, who knows what he is looking at, evaluate your rifle.

Joe

Joe - I'm with you. I'm doing what I can with what I have. If there is a head spacing gauge (as opposed to the feeler gauge) I can get it and see, but we pretty well know the barrel that was sent with the rifle is incorrect (I don't need a gauge to tell me that). We also know that so far Vince's barrel seems to be working. That's the best I can do w/o a micrometer. (or head spacing gauge). If anyone has one for 54r and is willing to send it to me, I will use it and report back.

The problem the Historic Arms barrel had with the brass has resolved. (probably burrs or something in the chamber left over from the blowouts with the steel). After 60 rounds of the brass, it no longer has the extraction issue with the brass. For what that is worth as I don't want to shoot brass with this rifle.

As for the "professional gunsmith" For the most part, these guns don't seem to be built by "professional gunsmiths". From what I have seen and heard many/most are garage builders moonlighting with building these things or very small shops that have very limited capacity. I have spoken with two of them so far. NONE have any availability in the foreseeable future to do the work on the gun. Probably b/c this is not their "day job"

I admit that "trial and error" are not the most direct method... but it may eventually get me there (and make for interesting web board fodder)

Thanks for all the help guys. Lord knows I need it (and very much appreciate it)

I will continue to test Vince's barrel with the steel. If it makes the next range trip with 200 rounds without incident, I will simply arrange to buy that barrel, get it parkerized to match the gun and shoot the bloody thing in piece without ever knowing what the head spacing is.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

Have you thought to measure the rim thickness of the several different ammunition choices you have used??

I've found considerable differences in "identical" calibers in the rim thickness over the years in various cartridges.

A couple thousandths of differing rims would effect headspace.....

Just one more data point to document/investigate.

-TomH

Thanks, yes, Tom I have. Surprisingly the Russian surplus I have is remarkably consistent at exactly .063 (or whatever Peter mentioned in the earlier post)

[Joe H]

Joe - I'm with you. I'm doing what I can with what I have. If there is a head spacing gauge (as opposed to the feeler gauge) I can get it and see, but we pretty well know the barrel that was sent with the rifle is incorrect (I don't need a gauge to tell me that). We also know that so far Vince's barrel seems to be working. That's the best I can do w/o a micrometer. (or head spacing gauge). If anyone has one for 54r and is willing to send it to me, I will use it and report back.

Djandj,

"can't use a feeler gage" The special gage is your finger. With the bolt pushed against the stops if you can move the case with your finger you have a problem. With the bolt face on the case head the stops should clear the bolt by approx. .005"

Joe