M1 Carbine Inland

[John Wyatt]

Mine's a hand-stamp (1). I didn't see any sign of removed markings, nor any signs of sanding and I hand scrubbed it with turp to clean before refinishing it in RLO with a Tung finish.

http://s272.photobucket.com/user/RAS...land%206900774

Russ

I didn't look at all your photos, but I see some mixed parts, so your carbine probably went through a rebuild or had parts changed during maintenance. The stock was most likely replaced with one that was sanded and refinished.

[Seaspriter]

Sometimes sanding and refinishing work is hard to see due to later use and the reaccumulation of oils and dirt. It may be the way you are describing it though. Even if it has been sanded, relax, most have been. Nowadays people WAY overdue due to lack of experience and the idea that "pretty" is better when it's not.

Deldriver is right on target with his comments. I have been restoring old guns since I was a little boy (now I'm a senior) and was taught by my father who restored flintlock muskets and pistols. Here are a few things I've learned about restoring the furniture/wood on an old gun, whether its an M-1 or Enfield or whatever:

1) Russ Selkirk said it right -- first hand scrub (with an old towel or rag) with turpentine, then see what emerges. Most old guns have years worth of buildup of Linseed Oil it turns yellow, then brown, and then very dark as the Linseed Oil ages and accumulates dirt (RLO is notorious because it never really hardens -- I know, because I have some of the guns I restored 60 years ago and they look downright dirty and grundgy now. While RLO was used originally on guns, if you want to keep the finish fresh, use BLO (boiling polymerizes the oil, enabling it to dry to a harder finish), and rub the last coat down real hard (burnish) to create some surface heat which helps "cure" the oil. Then, a day later, cover with a light coat of Tung Oil (which seals the top of the BLO) or Briwax (used in museums and available at ACE hardware), preventing it from turning brown a generation from now.

2. Least is (more often than not) Best: Before restoring a gun:
- live with it a while;
- consider all the restoration options;
- learn its history from conception to the time it falls into your hands. Let it “speak to you.”
- Realize you are just an “heirloom custodian” who has been entrusted with a cultural artifact. Only then consider doing something.
- The best advice: doing less is usually better than doing too much; doing too much to a gun can ruin its heritage and its value. You can never “unring the bell.”
3) Don't touch the wood until you understand: Sandpaper is a Woodworkers tool, Steel Wool is a Restorer’s tool, and a Wire Brush is a metal-working tool. Recently I cringed as I watched a You-Tube Bubba demonstrate the removal of cosmoline with soap and water and a wire brush scrubbing against the grain! Nothing will ruin wood faster than a wire brush (except perhaps using a torch or crowbar).
-Never use sandpaper on an old finish (its sole purpose should only be for removing wood, such as splicing in a wood patch to repair a chipped stock). Sandpaper gouges the wood, like a million small chisels, cutting grooves in the wood, making it rough (even the finer grades).
-Instead use steel wool; if you are unfamiliar with its use steel wool, start with the fine grades -0000 or 000- first, and work to medium grades. Steel wool scrapes the wood with a microscopic edge; use it with a solvent such as 50/50 linseed oil/mineral spirits or just with straight turpentine. (Say away from water -- it raises the grain). If you are removing varnish, you will need a stripper to dissolve the varnish and a courser grade steel wool to remove the gunk.
-While you might want to steam out some of the dings and scratches, don't try to get rid of them -- each one is part of the gun's heritage. And don't use the steel wool to cut through the wood's old patina. Just remove enough of the junk on the surface layer so that the wood can show itself without exposing new wood, thus becoming a Bignorant's tribute a false "glossy gun" image that never was.
-Remember, generally military guns never had a coat of varnish and their oil rubbed finish ways never a high gloss.

If anyone is interested in more detail on these restoration issues, I wrote a piece on restoring Enfields, but most of it is relevant for any kind of old military weapon:
Dropbox - Laws Principles of Restoration V1.0.pdf

Good Luck, Robert

[shadycon]

Very good info. You make it sound so easy. Why make things difficult by using harsh chemicals. GK

[PhilipSpanky]

deldriver said, "there was a very specific stock being used by Inland during the time period your carbine was built that is not often seen."

Can you help me out here and describe what you mean by "a very specific stock?"? From what I have previously read, it was my (admittedly newby), opinion that an oval cut low wood stock would be appropriate for an Inland with a serial number in the 68891xx range. What would be different than this description?

My apologies in advance for my ignorance...

[deldriver]

No apology needed on the ignorance part...we are all learning about these interesting weapons together as time goes by. The proper stock for an Inland carbine with that serial number would be a low wood oval-cut with or without additional recoil plate wood support. It would also have a longer barrel channel (about 4.15"). I hope this helps.

[painter777]

with or without additional recoil plate wood support

Spanky,
Here is a picture of the relief cut made for extra recoil plate support.



Here is a picture of the longer barrel channel. Should measure the 4.15" as D Driver has stated:




The example used above is a Late WRA stock, but would be the same as Inland.
Any WWII Issued Long Channel stock is fairly hard to come by.

I have a WRA 5,8 mil that sits in a long channel. I believe it to be the original stock.


HTH,
Charlie-Painter777

[deldriver]

Spanky,
Here is a picture of the relief cut made for extra recoil plate support.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04259-1.jpg
Here is a picture of the longer barrel channel. Should measure the 4.15" as D Driver has stated:


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04264-1.jpg

The example used above is a Late WRA stock, but would be the same as Inland.
Any WWII Issued Long Channel stock is fairly hard to come by.

I have a WRA 5,8 mil that sits in a long channel. I believe it to be the original stock.


HTH,
Charlie-Painter777

Thanks for posting the pictures, Charlie. They really help us explain the differences in the later stocks.

[PhilipSpanky]

Okey Dokey. So, my 68891xx Inland should have the long channel stock. Well, it does not have that stock. It has the ~3.1" channel rather than the 4.1" kind. I'm wondering then if the stock was originally issued with the long channel stock - and was later changed out sometime after WWII?

It seems to me (with my limited knowledge), that if the stock were changed out by an armory, there would be some stamping for that. Since there is no armory stamp, how did I end up with this stock with no markings (other than the OI in the slingwell)? Remember, this is a Korean bring back, so when/why or how could the stock have been swapped between WWII and 1952 when it entered into my family possession? Any ideas?

[painter777]

Many OI (Overton and other makers) had made replacements) IIRC not all of these would have a Ordnance stamp.
So........ Very well Could be a field replacement after the original stock was damaged.
Most everything to do with these little carbines are a mystery!!

My Guess,
Charlie-Painter777

[PhilipSpanky]

deldriver and Charlie-Painter777:

Thank you both for your input. What you guys say makes sense and helps me better understand my carbine and its history.

You guys are great.

Spanky