Royal engineers "sappers" tunnel rifle

[Bindi2]

I will take it on if i can wear my electronics over the cotton wool vaseline plugs.

[Colonel Enfield]

Were there shortages of service revolvers and Colt automatics? Were there restrictions on who could be issued a handgun? These would be the only reasons I could envision for such a silly creation- imagine trying to cycle it quickly! It does resemble a common form of North American cheapo hold-up weapon.

During WWI officers were, I believe, expected to purchase their own weapons while NCOs had them issued.

IIRC the guns were pricey but not outrageously expensive - I think a Colt M1908 was about $300 or so in modern currency during WWI and a Webley Mk I was the equivalent of about $500 in 1889 so probably a bit cheaper than that by the time the Mk VI came about. Still far more cash than the average Tommy was ever likely to see, though, considering their pay (c.1917) from what I understand was about $30 a week in modern terms.

Given all that, I don't think there was a shortage of Webleys, S&Ws, Colts or assorted sidearms for the people that were expected to have them among the British services in WWI but I can also imagine the one thing which wouldn't be in short supply on a battlefield would be SMLE (and Mauser) rifles.

I've heard (possibly apocryphal) stories Australian & New Zealand troops were known to take sawn-off shotguns along as trench-fighting weapons (because stuff the Hague Convention, there's Hun to put on the run!) and more reliable tales of elephant guns from the African and Indian colonies being deployed as early anti-materiel weapons, so as I said before, I would not be at all surprised if a handful of soldiers likely to regularly engage in CQB took "salvaged"* SMLEs that weren't in the best condition and made some "field modifications" to create something akin to the contraption** in the photo posted by Mr Boyd in the OP - especially when you consider an SMLE Mk III with bayonet is nearly six feet long and about as handy in super-confined spaces as an agitated walrus.

*You can work out from where, I'm sure.
**A word that doesn't get nearly enough unironic use anymore, incidentally.

[Peter Laidler]

Er............, surely, even in cqb on land or in house clearing (the most knackering and mind numbingly tiring exercise you are EVER likely to encounter) using one of these mythical contraptions, you'd still only get one shot. And with a pistol, 6 shots. And in my naive way, I'd suggest that 6 shots with a pistol are better than one shot with a 'rifle'- even if all your squad has one!

Nope........... I maintain that while some of these rifles were cut down and are recorded fact, those said to have been shortened for use by tunnellers is the stuff of fairy tales. Like limbo dancing Mini's!

[WarPig1976]

Were there shortages of service revolvers and Colt automatics? Were there restrictions on who could be issued a handgun? These would be the only reasons I could envision for such a silly creation- imagine trying to cycle it quickly! It does resemble a common form of North American cheapo hold-up weapon.

Ridolpho

Leave the gun, Take the cannolies

[Beerhunter]

Whenever they turn up, these "rare" guns, for example, Spandau Lugers, all seem to do so in the United States - odd that.

[Roger Payne]

'Which weapon to use was left to personal preference. Officers carried a Webley service revolver, or other model of their own choice, such as Captain Sawers' small automatic, but others favoured specially devised alternatives. At The Bluff Canadian listeners armed themselves with sawn off Lee Enfield Rifles, whilst at Railway Wood, one officer produced a wooden club, finding it more handy than a knife or bayonet as it avoided the danger of a blade embedding itself in the timbers of the narrow tunnels. He also fashioned a wooden forearm shield to ward off enemy knife thrusts.'

Barton, Doyle & Vandewalle; Beneath Flanders Fields; pp 136, 137.

A sketch of a cut down rifle of the type used by the Canadian listeners is shown on p 137.
This is a secondary source, but the primary source is quoted; viz: Major RSG Stokes, War Diary, National Archives.

I look forward to reading of Gil's efforts, but if your researchers are any good Gil, they should at the very least come up with this much information.

I have never argued that these monstrosities were a good idea, but they existed, & if only but a few, were carried on occasions by tunnellers.
Let's hope they were never called upon to fire them.

ATB.

[Simon]

Rog,

I fear you may be "flailing away at a deceased Equine" with this one!

What's next from your furtive imagination? Tanks that float?

[Gil Boyd]

and they did.................read, "The Tanks with Skirts DDAY"

[browningautorifle]

Tanks that float?

Now THAT'S just silly...

[Colonel Enfield]

Whenever they turn up, these "rare" guns, for example, Spandau Lugers, all seem to do so in the United States - odd that.

An interesting observation but one I agree with. Might have something to do with the size of the US collector market, its friendly gun laws (compared to most other English-speaking countries) and a lack of generally available specialist information around some of the more esoteric areas of the hobby (for want of a better term).

For example, I think most halfway serious collectors in Australia know that if someone's offering something alleged to be a Lithgow HT rifle, it's a relatively straightforward matter to look the serial number up in Skennerton and see if it really is a genuine HT or a bog-standard Lithgow with a heavy barrel and an old-fashioned sight on it. Not sure if that level of information is widely available in the US, though, for example.