Found MUSKET in thrift store.

[DaveN]

Gentlemen, if you Google M1803-41-51 Click on the site" Digitalt Museum And follow your nose and the 1803's (about ten or so) and I looked at a couple/ look exactly like the one I have. Even some of the stampings are the same (OIR on one of them in the same spot on the barrel) the K and the crown the shape of the lock,the stamped number and the brass are all the same. I polished the brass on mine and when I saw these pictures I almost fell out of my chair. The Danish rifle 1803 may not be as rare as the 1821 but I think it is what it is. Let me know what you think (Patrick, Claven, gew, and anyone I might have left out) all your opinions are valued.

[DaveN]

A little proof with the polished brass. I put these together in haste but you get the picture.

[jmoore]

Dang, now why'd you go and polish the brass? It'll be years before it looks right again. It's like a tarted up 90 year old woman. Made me get harsh, but I'm not sorry!

[DaveN]

I'm going to get an after market sight (replica) and a ramrod and enjoy it. I'm not trying to make it look brand new but to me the brass had what ever someone covered the wood with(maybe when it was turned into a lamp?) and to me it looks closer to the ones that everyone is trying to sell. If I was ever to sell it I would have a hard time if it looked to most people like a neglected piece of junk. If I was the soldier and this was my rifle I would polish the brass (when I had the time). I'm sorry if I have disappointed some but I'm going somewhere between don't touch it,and completely restore it.

[Patrick Chadwick]

My apologies to gandog56 for copying this picture from the thread "My Pet Peeve" on the general discussion forum, but it's all staying in the family! It is just so appropriate to illustrate the point I wish to make to help DaveN. But be warned, it also illustrates one of my pet peeves!

Attachment 17511

I would like all of you to imagine you are standing in front of this gentleman.

Now say, slowly and clearly after me:

"Sorry sarge, but I am not going to clean this rifle, it would damage the original patina"

The scenario lies somewhere between unbelievable and unimaginable. I am not quite sure what his reaction would be, but your life insurance might classify you as a suicide risk!

Let us assume he is, at heart, a humane person, and realises that he is confronted with a very difficult case. I imagine him explaining quite slowly and patiently that corrosion and dirt are not part of the original rifle, not "part of it's history", but the result of neglect and failure to maintain a soldier's most important item of equipment, and he would surely beseech you to bear that in mind as you spend the next days cleaning every rifle in the armory, lest you forget this lesson, which is that

CORROSION AND DIRT IS JUST THAT - CORROSION AND DIRT.

IT DESTROYS YOUR EQUIPMENT.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE PRESERVED.

Now there is a type of dealer who, rather than honestly admitting he is buying and selling old tools of a military nature, perceives himself as a "Purveyor of Fine Antiques to the Discerning Gentry".

These people have accordingly invented some delicate expressions to cover the dismal state of some of their old equipment and sell it "as is" without going to the trouble of doing a proper (but time-consuming!) job of cleaning it up. So a finish turning into what to you and me is plain rust is described as "plum brown". There never was any such finish, it is just rust developing.
Likewise, filthy wood and brass covered in verdigris does not "show a fine patina", it needs cleaning.

But, but, but... there is nevertheless such a thing as patina. The surface of wood darkens with exposure to light - and handling, of course. Surfaces are rubbed in a various ways, depending, on their position. Dings appear from everyday usage. linseed oil and varnishes harden slowly over years. The combination of these long-term effects is a genuine patina. Complete removal of this layer will give any old piece of wood a falsely fresh look.

I am accordingly shocked when I read about ghastly recipes, such as smothering your gunstock in oven cleaner (which tends to be caustic soda with value-enhancing additives) and even putting it in the dishwasher for a really good clean. That wood is part of a complex tool. Skilled armorers spend years adjusting fits and bedding barrels so that rifles gives their best performance. The wood was selected, matured and carefully dried before use. It has settled down over a century or so to its present form. And now someone comes and soaks it right through to destroy that settled state and encourage it to warp, adds caustic chemicals to remove any real patina and really destroy the surface, attacks it with sandpaper, just in case there was still some original finish left, and presents the result as restoration.

Furniture restorers, museum staff, musical instrument makers - all would be horrified, and if they knew the term, would scream...

...that is NOT restoration, that is BUBBARING

It is therefore quite understandable, and correct advice to a beginner, to say "leave it alone", as some have already done. I said right at the start that it looked as if it needed professional restoration, and have not intervened further in the matter of restoration until now, as I am very busy on another "building site". But you have started the ball rolling by polishing the brass. And the surface of the wood looks as if it has been covered in floor varnish. That (if I am guessing right) is something to be removed. So before you do anything further, I implore you to read the series on refurbishing an Argentine Rolling Block on the restoration forum (The Restorer's Corner). Right from the start, please, as when I have managed this once, it would be pleasant not to have to repeat it!

Coming Soon to a Forum Near You! - Part 5 on refurbishing the stock.

Please note, these are tips on refurbishing old rifles, not on museum-level restoration - to make something fit for use without having to wrap it up in cotton wool or keep it in a glass showcase forever.

And if you don't do it properly - the ghosts of sergeants long past may come to haunt you!

Finally:

DON'T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY - IT'S YOUR RIFLE

- as you have quite correctly pointed out!

Enough for now, must get on with Part 5 a.s.a.p.

Patrick

[Patrick Chadwick]

Double posting eliminated

[Patrick Chadwick]

DaveN, I just had another look at the original pics. You are quite right, that was no kind of original finish, that was Bubba at work with the floor varnish - the clue is the look of fossilized treacle over everything. Fortunately Bubba usually does not bother to clean the wood before splashing on the brown muck, which does not adhere well to the so-called "patina" a.k.a. dirt. It often comes off quite easily IF YOU DO IT PROPERLY.

So please leave that rifle alone for now, read up on the Argentine RB refurbishent, and not only do you have Part 5 to look forward to, but I will see if I can post a pic of a "treacle" rifle AFTER the kind of treatment that I not only recommend, but actually practise!

P.S: I think you need to learn the Norwegian for "Do you happen to have a spare backsight and cleaning rod?"

[Patrick Chadwick]

For DaveN:

Treacle Rifle before

Attachment 17527

Treacle Rifle after

Attachment 17526

Convinced?

If so, please wait a couple of days so that I can tell you how to do it

[DaveN]

I will wait. Patrick you have come through again,thanks.

[jmoore]

Too harsh, I was? Possibly. But upon a further review of the photos presented so far, I'm still not convinced that a GENTLE cleaning of the wood and esp. the brass would have been more prudent to start. I don't mind old brass that's worn shiny because tou are handling it or using it, but the rest ought to keep that nice old browness. Green is bad, that's gotta go, but the photos did not reveal much active corrosion.

AS it was furniture, I'm wondering if it doesn't have just an old waxy build up. Try a light rubbing w/ a soft cloth wettened w/ isopropyl alcohol. It will remove scads of gunk but leave the old finish pretty much untouched. Not aggressive at all! Besides might as well even out the finishes now that you've started. In 30-50 years it'll be all better, and that's not much in gun years.

I've a brass barreled blunderbuss (Irish mail carrier's thing IIRC) that someone polished up over twenty years ago, and it still doesn't look quite right.

But never mind me, I think Patrick Chadwick will do a much better job helping you do right to this VERY interesting weapon! I just couldn't help expressing my dismay, have seen way too many "improved" pieces over the years. Be patient, and gentle, please. Thanks for letting me rant. All done now.