? Fake parts m1 carbine

[DaveHH]

That is about the best slant you can put on this guy. "You bought it, he didn't say therefore you are obligated to pay" might work for a legitimate part, but these people conspired to make a fake part and cheat people. It is a criminal enterprise from start to finish. I would welcome any legal action or bad feedback this guy would do. You then have the chance to say it out loud.

[ChipS]

First, I don't know ABCLeigh, or whatever name he might go by, and I don't really care if ANECTINE pays him or not. I know that almost everything ABC sells is reproduction and I paid $ as a beginning collector for that knowledge. I asume that GunBroker rules are about the same as ebay & all the other auction sites - a winning bid is a CONTRACT. I am not a lawyer but I believe that if there is no definitive evidence (writings, images, witnessed oral claim, etc.) to prove intentional fraud then I must assume the the contract is valid and enforcable. In my opinion ABCLeigh did not say the sight was an original USGI WWII item nor did he say the words 'Irwin Pedersen' on his auction page. He did not say anything about the item in a descriptive sentence, other than maybe the shipping cost. ANECTINE interpretted the TITLE of the auction to describe an ORIGINAL M1 Carbine sight manufactured by or for Irwin Pederson in WWII for installation on an Irwin Pedersen M1 Carbine. In my opinion he had no right to make that interpretation and if he did do so without further study and inquiry then he should not be relieved of his responsibilities under the terms of the contract. I believe defacto fraud was perpetrated but I cannot prove it because no claim of originallity was ever made by the seller. If ABC sends ANECTINE the sight that was shown and purchased then I believe ABC has fulfilled his part of the contract and so should ANECTINE. If not then where does it end but in 'every man make his own rules' chaos.

Finally, I can understand how some members believe ABCLeigh is a criminal, counterfeiting (sp) a$$hole and nobody should have to pay for any of his auction items. But, until we get a Federal law regulating interstate on-line commerce (be damn careful of what you wish for - you might get it) the watchwords are 'caveat emptor', and always have been. We have to use our common sense in all transactions - particularly on-line where we can not see the item before the bid or the person selling it. I am not a Democrat. I do not blame someone else for my ignorance or stupidity and I do not selectively interpret our laws and morays to best suit my own purpose at the time and I do not consider it to be my 'right' to force others to make me whole again when I step in it, just because I don't think I got a fair shake.

For you 'old time, Harry Truman' Democrats out there, I am very sorry to be so blunt but you are a vanishing breed and the shortcomings of character I describe above seem to me to be the rule of the day. IMHO as long as people put up with it out of political correctness we will continue on toward oblivion. To ANECTINE, I don't mean to demean you in any way, particularly since you appear to be ready to take responsibility for your own actions. Like I said before, I have been there and learned from it, and so will you.

End rant here. Semper Fi. ChipS

[ANECTINE]

Again I take no offense from your comment because you are correct that did pay for the item
even though through this forum and my own more critical observation it is an obvious fake.
I have also learned that even if the item is listed as M1 Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site rp/rp
that you can't even believe that . Again I am thankful for the comments both for and against
paying for the item, I do believe however in disagreement with you Chip that it was listed as above
and it was a fraudulent and deceptive listing even if in the
quote" description "it only had 6 dollar shipping, Just a question who puts the top listing down on any given item that is placed on GunBroker . If this gentleman put down Irwin Pedersen sight marked rp/rp I don't know how that is not a description of originality. There is no more an Irwin Pedersen factory or subcontractor making these items for an m1 so I would assume that an unsuspecting person
is going to get rip off by a Chinese knock off that has nothing to do with Irwin Pedersen. It looks like there are a lot of us out there and I fully accept the title of naive sap. And knowing my type of personality I did pay for it but I like so many others would like to see this type of practice stopped and the only way to do it is taking action that some on this forum suggested and not pay an obvious forgery . I was to lazy and certainly could not challenge the person because I am neither an expert or quite sure if M1Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site marked rp/rp as described is really not one if it is not located in the description box. But this has been a great lessen for me . It was not about the money that so much as just the red a-- that I got when I found out about these fake items that are being passed off as original by these
shysters out there . I appreciate all that has been said and so long there is money to be made at this there will be ignorant suckers like me there buying this stuff[me excluded now ] but in the long run this will only hurt people that are trying to have a great hobby of collecting these old rifles
Thanks again
Chuck Lobrano

[tenOC]

"There is no honor among thieves."

[carbineone]

Again I take no offense from your comment because you are correct that did pay for the item
even though through this forum and my own more critical observation it is an obvious fake.
I have also learned that even if the item is listed as M1 Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site rp/rp
that you can't even believe that . Again I am thankful for the comments both for and against
paying for the item, I do believe however in disagreement with you Chip that it was listed as above
and it was a fraudulent and deceptive listing even if in the
quote" description "it only had 6 dollar shipping, Just a question who puts the top listing down on any given item that is placed on GunBroker . If this gentleman put down Irwin Pedersen sight marked rp/rp I don't know how that is not a description of originality. There is no more an Irwin Pedersen factory or subcontractor making these items for an m1 so I would assume that an unsuspecting person
is going to get rip off by a Chinese knock off that has nothing to do with Irwin Pedersen. It looks like there are a lot of us out there and I fully accept the title of naive sap. And knowing my type of personality I did pay for it but I like so many others would like to see this type of practice stopped and the only way to do it is taking action that some on this forum suggested and not pay an obvious forgery . I was to lazy and certainly could not challenge the person because I am neither an expert or quite sure if M1Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site marked rp/rp as described is really not one if it is not located in the description box. But this has been a great lessen for me . It was not about the money that so much as just the red a-- that I got when I found out about these fake items that are being passed off as original by these
shysters out there . I appreciate all that has been said and so long there is money to be made at this there will be ignorant suckers like me there buying this stuff[me excluded now ] but in the long run this will only hurt people that are trying to have a great hobby of collecting these old rifles
Thanks again
Chuck Lobrano

You are spot on Chuck. It was not made for a IP in WWII and he damn well knew that. Does not matter what he said or did not say,he was selling what he represented as a IP sight. It was sold as a IP sight and it is obviously not and he damn well knew it was not. Just listing it in the auction with IP markings is enough to imply it is real and it should not have been made and sold. The seller is the one with the obligation to tell you if it is fake or real when he knows that fact. I assure you he knew it was fake.

It is not a IP sight and never should have been listed as one. Thats fraud right there.

I applaud you for not wanting to welch on the deal and that shows good character, but this is a time when it would have been OK in my opinion.

Gunbroker Sucks. If they had any kind of respect for their buyers they would stand behind them if you were to back out and stop any negative reflection on you if he tried to leave you negative feedback.

I no longer buy anything from Gunbroker. They could care less what happens to the buyers on there. They also are impossible to communicate with. Do not do any buisness with Gunbroker either.

[ChipS]

But this has been a great lessen for me . It was not about the money that so much as just the red a-- that I got when I found out about these fake items that are being passed off as original by these
shysters out there .

Chuck:

I did not accuse you of being stupid or lazy. I do believe you were ignorant of the facts that the seller is a known fraud and the sight is obviously a fake. There is no shame in ignorance. We are all ignorant of everything in life until we are educated. You are now educated about this seller and his fraudulent goods. You are not lazy - you are trusting and assume that most people share your sense of ethics and morality. Well, many don't and now you know. You struck a chord in me when you said it's not the money, it's the anger and embarrassment that you were cheated and the cheat will get away with it. That is exactly how I felt when it happened to me. The money can be replaced but re-building your self-esteem and trust in other people takes a little longer. Don't feel bad, I would wager every member of this forum has had the same experience at least once in their collecting life.

I keep a list of the parts fakers, bait & switch artists, creative writers (or non-writers) and strategic photographers that I have had the misfortune to deal with. No matter how good their parts look and sound I never bid on them - simply because I cannot count on receiving what I think I'm bidding on and they rarely offer an inspection period. I have never welched on a deal but I agree with a lot of the comments here in that if any seller deserved to get screwed on a deal ABC (or other aliases) is the one who deserves it most. Keep your eyes open, buy a couple books and pay attention to this and other collector forums and you will not be cheated too many more times before you can smell it coming. Good fortune. ChipS

[tenOC]

I keep a list of the parts fakers, bait & switch artists, creative writers (or non-writers)

I've seen one guy who lists barrel bands for sale on auction sites stating 100% USGI TYPE I BARREL BAND. The swivels are fake.

[ChipS]

I've seen one guy who lists barrel bands for sale on auction sites stating 100% USGI TYPE I BARREL BAND. The swivels are fake.

There are many, many, many more sellers peddling knock-offs now than there were 5 or 10 years ago and you are correct, many/most of them advertise as 'original WWII USGI', or something in that line. Some are good fakes and some are ridiculous - IMO all are or should be criminal. Up until about a month ago when eBay sold their misguided conscience (sp) to the devil and dropped their anti-gun embargo, I'd say 90% of their carbine parts were repro. In my opinion it is worse to lie about the originality of a collector part for sale than to say nothing and let the buyer assume, but either way it should be criminal.

Gentlemen, for those of you who have not studied 100's of these carbine collector parts (real and fake) you had better get wise because the people selling them don't give damn about you unless you are a relative, friend or partner in crime; the auction sites facilitating the fraud don't give a damn about you unless you are a high volume seller/buyer/dealer making them a lot of money; and the district attorneys don't give a damn about you unless you have political clout and reside/vote in the same state as the crook seller. This is one reason I have been trying to quit for some time, so far without complete success. The fakers are getting better and bolder every year so if you can't afford to throw away the cost of an expensive carbine part then you better research it well before you lay out the cash. I'm sorry but that is just the way it is. I often wish it could be like the 1950's or 60's again when it wasn't nearly so bad and there was still some honor and respect in the collecting communities, but that ship has sailed forever. JMHO ChipS

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Know who you are buying from.

Honor and respect is still around. Not everyone is trying to take advantage of people.

[ChipS]

Honor and respect is still around. Not everyone is trying to take advantage of people.

I stand corrected. Yes, this is true. I didn't mean for my observation to sound so absolute.